Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 31, 2019 15:31:50 GMT -6
Does this mean the cort can just decide to make a law of another country Talossan law without it being approved by the Ziu? If so, why?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 31, 2019 16:08:36 GMT -6
I assume determine the citizenship status in this case means terminate it. What counts as having made your presence known? Does it include posting on social media about non-Talossan affairs.? Instant messaging with a Talossan citizen? Whose job is it to keep a record of this? How do you proof that someone has not made their presence known to anyone? Can the Ziu arbitrarily decide to not terminate the citizenship of someone they like regardless of their activity? What if the Ziu simply can't be bothered to write legislation to remove people from the rolls?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 31, 2019 16:11:35 GMT -6
Why have "Matters incidental to the execution of Federal government" (and some others I think?) been removed here?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 31, 2019 16:19:54 GMT -6
All questions that perhaps should have been raised during the Convocation process.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 31, 2019 16:45:38 GMT -6
True, and I am sorry I didn't. (Although in my defense I'm not a legislator and I wasn't allowed to submit amendments.) I'm afraid it's not the only Talossan thing I really should have done in recent months but failed to do. Nor is it the first time I couldn't find the motivation to comment on a bill until it had already been clarked. To be honest, I hadn't been paying much attention and I mistakenly assumed it would probably be carried over the elections to be submitted next term. Either way I was planning to comment earlier but didn't got around to it until it was too late.
There are a lot of details (including some points I mentioned but other changes as well) that have not been discussed in any form, not included in a list of changes, not mentioned in any debate, no arguments given for their inclusion. The Ziu was supposed to go over all this I guess, but it appears only some of it has been covered and only by a few active MZs. There may be good reasons for this, obviously others have been busy too or had more urgent priorities. Maybe some also just couldn't be bothered because they didn't like it in the first place or maybe some people just support all of it and didn't think any changes were necessary, I don't know. Either way the result is that there are many points left that haven't been discussed.
If it passes the Ziu will need to step up next term because there are loads of references to the OrgLaw in El Lexhatx that would need to be fixed. Plus there is additional legislation that needs to be added. If that doesn't happen before the deadline, either because there are disagreements on what the law should be or because the Ziu isn't active enough to write the required legislation there will be problems
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Feb 1, 2019 8:05:37 GMT -6
(Although in my defense I'm not a legislator and I wasn't allowed to submit amendments.) Anyone could have put an amendment forward for discussion as this is the Hopper, and anyone authorized to submit legislation in the Ziu could have submitted an amendment per the Rules thread. You technically could have submitted amendments using the SoS' submission power.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 1, 2019 8:13:57 GMT -6
I stand corrected. I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was only for the King and members of the Ziu, but I guess I am wrong about that. I should have paid more attention.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 1, 2019 17:07:53 GMT -6
I stand corrected. I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was only for the King and members of the Ziu Only they got a vote, but any citizen can put anything in the Hopper that they like.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 2, 2019 13:57:42 GMT -6
How does this work? Will the election of a Seneschal directly count as a majority vote for all ministers or does a separate vote need to be held? A separate vote will be held, but concurrently with the election of the Seneschal.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 2, 2019 13:58:55 GMT -6
Does this mean the cort can just decide to make a law of another country Talossan law without it being approved by the Ziu? If so, why? Courts looking to Common Law to settle cases that cannot be addressed by a country's existing legislation is common practice throughout Anglo-American legal systems.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 2, 2019 14:00:09 GMT -6
I assume determine the citizenship status in this case means terminate it. What counts as having made your presence known? Does it include posting on social media about non-Talossan affairs.? Instant messaging with a Talossan citizen? Whose job is it to keep a record of this? How do you proof that someone has not made their presence known to anyone? Can the Ziu arbitrarily decide to not terminate the citizenship of someone they like regardless of their activity? What if the Ziu simply can't be bothered to write legislation to remove people from the rolls? If all of this was dealt with in the Organic Law it would be way too long; this is what statute is for. Thanks for bringing this up though.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 3, 2019 8:49:48 GMT -6
Many thanks to the Seneschal for answering some of my questions, despite me being late and not an MZ. It is much appreciated. How does this work? Will the election of a Seneschal directly count as a majority vote for all ministers or does a separate vote need to be held? A separate vote will be held, but concurrently with the election of the Seneschal. Why is this not specified in the proposal? So if I understand correctly this means we have a vote on all proposed ministers by all proposed Seneschal candidates. What happens if a minister is approved but the Seneschal who proposed that minister is not elected. Also, don't you think that there is a real possibility of a Seneschal being elected but none of their ministers being approved? (Especially since in the case no candidate has the support of a majority, a Seneschal is still likely to be elected, because the no Seneschal option is likely to be eliminated in the first round, even if it would get a majority against all candidates.)
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 3, 2019 8:52:46 GMT -6
Does this mean the cort can just decide to make a law of another country Talossan law without it being approved by the Ziu? If so, why? Courts looking to Common Law to settle cases that cannot be addressed by a country's existing legislation is common practice throughout Anglo-American legal systems. Ok, so do these countries adopt the law of other countries without the legislative branch having a say in it? And why should we, just because some countries do this?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 3, 2019 8:54:37 GMT -6
I assume determine the citizenship status in this case means terminate it. What counts as having made your presence known? Does it include posting on social media about non-Talossan affairs.? Instant messaging with a Talossan citizen? Whose job is it to keep a record of this? How do you proof that someone has not made their presence known to anyone? Can the Ziu arbitrarily decide to not terminate the citizenship of someone they like regardless of their activity? What if the Ziu simply can't be bothered to write legislation to remove people from the rolls? If all of this was dealt with in the Organic Law it would be way too long; this is what statute is for. Thanks for bringing this up though. Ok, so what is the plan for resolving all these issues using legislation? And what is the problem with the current system, which is a lot less arbitrary?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 3, 2019 9:20:43 GMT -6
I'm not sure it is wise to have an outgoing Cosa majority to appoint a ministry of the government it supports to conduct the next elections. (Then again, the Ziu sets the rules for appointing the SoS without Organic restrictions anyway.)
Either way, if the plan is ever to appoint a ministry to run the election, why still organically
* require the SoS to conduct referenda on impeached senators during the elections (III, art 2, sec 5, part 3) * have the SoS announce the final vote tally (III, 3, 2) * allow the SoS to promulgate regulations regarding party registration (III, 5, 1, 1b) ?
All these seem like things that should be done by whoever conducts the election, but according to the OrgLaw that does not have to be the Seneschal, while all these organically remain the SoS's responsibility even when the Ziu appoints some other party to conduct the elections.
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