L'Inziziun dal Società per l'Ilesnaziun del Glheþ

[Iac Marscheir]

Benvenescu àl SIGN!

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sept 16, 2017 0:07:12 GMT -6 Sir C. M. Siervicül said:

Sept 15, 2017 16:30:31 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

On a personal level: I am amused by people who thought they could unilaterally fork the language in 2007 arguing like this.

Understandable. The 2007 Arestada had some things that I think were very good, some things that in retrospect were not so good, and the unintended consequence of a major division in the Talossan language community. I can understand the perspective that it wasn't worth it. I can also understand the perspective that it was worth it (while recognising that it also had drawbacks). What I can't understand is the idea that what we really need now is more division.

That's a gracious and well thought out response, thanks.

I am personally interested in a unified orthography, and it was not only the Republicans but Tomás Gariçeir who was offended at the 2007 Arestadâ. I take Iac and Marcial's point that newer speakers have learned the 2007 orthography and just turning the clock back isn't an option. Some of the changes are sensible. But my problem is that I'm like one of those old school Germans who are still using ß in places where it is now improper because that's how they learned to spell when they were kids, and I still feel like I wasn't consulted properly.

[Iac Marscheir]

Orthographically speaking, the things I insist on keeping the same now (because I like them, or because I think they make the language easier) are the -rh infinitive ending and absence of î (the reason I gave up learning Romanian was because of â/î and Russian because of ы). Certain other things, I'm willing to change.

Just saying, so people know my agenda.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial]

I hope the times I advocated for orthographical reforms highlight how important an "Orthographical Reunision" at all costs is to me. There are a few thing that I insist on:

1) No unnecessary stress marks (as in, standard stress is unmarked)
2) Consistent stress rules (easy to remember rules to determine where standard stress is to begin with)
3) Universality (one spelling for all "dialects", like Cornish is doing it; my second proposal dealt with this, albeit sub-optimally)
4) Regardless of how infinitives are spelled, don't spell irregular verbs differently (-rh and -r are both A-OK with me, but not -rë)
5) Fix the in/im/în/îm thing that King Ben and Sir Tomás tried to adress, but then resulted in abolishing î altogether

Once the "Orthographical Reunision" has been achieved for good, and we can write texts without having to wonder about what goddamn spelling style to use, we can start focussing on things that helps ár glheþ spread.

Sept 16, 2017 15:05:03 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

I am personally interested in a unified orthography, and it was not only the Republicans but Tomás Gariçeir who was offended at the 2007 Arestadâ. I take Iac and Marcial's point that newer speakers have learned the 2007 orthography and just turning the clock back isn't an option. Some of the changes are sensible. But my problem is that I'm like one of those old school Germans who are still using ß in places where it is now improper because that's how they learned to spell when they were kids, and I still feel like I wasn't consulted properly.

This makes the fact that we still haven't settled this all the more tragic, since it sounds like settling is could've been so easy.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sept 16, 2017 16:06:57 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

Sept 16, 2017 15:05:03 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

I am personally interested in a unified orthography, and it was not only the Republicans but Tomás Gariçeir who was offended at the 2007 Arestadâ. I take Iac and Marcial's point that newer speakers have learned the 2007 orthography and just turning the clock back isn't an option. Some of the changes are sensible. But my problem is that I'm like one of those old school Germans who are still using ß in places where it is now improper because that's how they learned to spell when they were kids, and I still feel like I wasn't consulted properly.

This makes the fact that we still haven't settled this all the more tragic, since it sounds like settling is could've been so easy.

In 2007, sadly, for many Kingdom citizens, denying any legitimacy to the Talossan Republic was a political priority and fracturing the language community was considered a small price to pay. But those times should be by-gones. Probably more important than the fact that 2007 alienated me was the fact that it alienated Sir Tomás. (I've contacted him on Facebook and apparently he's reading these discussions).

The -rë ending on irregular verbs and the sound î are both things I learnt as "charming, quirky" features of ár glheþ naziunál and I don't see that chucking them out made things any better, but clearly many disagree. On the other hand, good riddance to û as in English "but".

[Iac Marscheir]

Sept 16, 2017 18:03:17 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Sept 16, 2017 16:06:57 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

This makes the fact that we still haven't settled this all the more tragic, since it sounds like settling is could've been so easy.

In 2007, sadly, for many Kingdom citizens, denying any legitimacy to the Talossan Republic was a political priority and fracturing the language community was considered a small price to pay. But those times should be by-gones. Probably more important than the fact that 2007 alienated me was the fact that it alienated Sir Tomás. (I've contacted him on Facebook and apparently he's reading these discussions).

The -rë ending on irregular verbs and the sound î are both things I learnt as "charming, quirky" features of ár glheþ naziunál and I don't see that chucking them out made things any better, but clearly many disagree. On the other hand, good riddance to û as in English "but".

Has he said anything about me? <_< >_>

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sept 16, 2017 21:01:28 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Has he said anything about me? <_< >_>

Yes, he said "Iac Marschéir isch heßlec'h ès sieu matrâ lo claida comicmînt."

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial]

Sept 17, 2017 14:06:38 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Sept 16, 2017 21:01:28 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Has he said anything about me? <_< >_>

Yes, he said "Iac Marschéir isch heßlec'h ès sieu matrâ lo claida comicmînt."

Enceida hutschind.

[Iac Marscheir]

Sept 17, 2017 14:06:38 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Sept 16, 2017 21:01:28 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Has he said anything about me? <_< >_>

Yes, he said "Iac Marschéir isch heßlec'h ès sieu matrâ lo claida comicmînt."

Acertas? Na à lo qe sieu matra estev'iens criceteu es sieu patreu fitxeira come dels bärs da suitsch.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial]

Sept 17, 2017 15:05:10 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Acertas? Zira / Ziretz / Na à lo qe sieu matra estev'iens criceteu es sieu patreu fitxeira come dels bärs da suitsch.

1) Quick reminder that Talossan has seperate imperative forms: -a and -etz (of course, there are exceptions; for instance, zirarh has the irregular imperative form na as well as the regular ones). Both mean the same.
2) lo [lu] was never mutated, no, not even when mutations were a thing.
3) The 3rd person singular animate possessive adjective (or, in other words, "his/her") is always sieu (and optionally sieux when the noun it describes is plural).
4) The stress mark on fitxéirarh marks that the infinitive has irregular stress (without the accent, the stress would be on the last syllable). All other forms of this type of verbs have usual stress.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sept 17, 2017 14:15:22 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

Sept 17, 2017 14:06:38 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Yes, he said "Iac Marschéir isch heßlec'h ès sieu matrâ lo claida comicmînt."

Enceida hutschind.

Ha ha, that's a really odd calque from English swearing. Surely Talossan swearing should follow the patterns of other Romance languages! Something like ¡Gadailâ da bagaiçaría da apc'hâ! (French), ¡Figlheu da gadailâ! (Spanish) or ¡cäps da verpâ! (Italian)

[Iac Marscheir]

Sept 17, 2017 15:15:07 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

Sept 17, 2017 15:05:10 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Acertas? Zira / Ziretz / Na à lo qe sieu matra estev'iens criceteu es sieu patreu fitxeira come dels bärs da suitsch.

1) Quick reminder that Talossan has seperate imperative forms: -a and -etz (of course, there are exceptions; for instance, zirarh has the irregular imperative form na as well as the regular ones). Both mean the same.
2) lo [lu] was never mutated, no, not even when mutations were a thing.
3) The 3rd person singular animate possessive adjective (or, in other words, "his/her") is always sieu (and optionally sieux when the noun it describes is plural).
4) The stress mark on fitxéirarh marks that the infinitive has irregular stress (without the accent, the stress would be on the last syllable). All other forms of this type of verbs have usual stress.

1) Ah... yeah. Lapse of mindfulness.
2) Mis-memorized my pronoun tables.
3) Same.
4) Oh.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial]

Sept 17, 2017 16:19:29 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Sept 17, 2017 14:15:22 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

Enceida hutschind.

Ha ha, that's a really odd calque from English swearing. Surely Talossan swearing should follow the patterns of other Romance languages! Something like ¡Gadailâ da bagaiçaría da apc'hâ! (French), ¡Figlheu da gadailâ! (Spanish) or ¡cäps da verpâ! (Italian)

Maybe we can calque Romansch swearing? I remember reading somewhere that Romansch is prefered over all other Romance languages when it comes to loans (those tend to be influenced by or calqued from German though...)

EDIT: I remember now, it was the Scurznia Gramatica, which says that "If a foreign word must be used, it is to be taken firstly from Occitan or Rhaeto-Romance [...]"

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Sept 17, 2017 16:36:18 GMT -6 Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial said:

EDIT: I remember now, it was the Scurznia Gramatica, which says that "If a foreign word must be used, it is to be taken firstly from Occitan or Rhaeto-Romance [...]"

So a brief google informs me that good swearing phrases in Talossan would be: ¡Verpâ d'asineu! ¡Va tscharh! or possibly ¡Sapperlot!

Dan Wardlow, Seneschál in 1998 who spectacularly fell out with KR1, used ¡sucetz va verpâ!, which really blew Ben's mind in the bad way.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial]

Ahaha, this is amazing! Can we make suc(e)arh an honorary Talossan verb, please?