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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Dec 18, 2015 23:09:47 GMT -6
Gluc, I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation the more I think about it, but it did prompt me to wonder why we're entrusting the oldest MC with anything based on that characteristic alone. I couldn't even name the oldest MC -- that's not a good sign for a mark of distinguishment. I know this is not the place for back-and-forth, but I just wanted to clarify.
EDIT: It might be Ian da Bitour?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Dec 20, 2015 12:09:34 GMT -6
RZ29: PER
Certainly much better than our current situation, even if we do have to go back and make a few small changes.
RZ30: PER
Good to get it all organized.
RZ31: PER
Best compromise I think we will get.
RZ32: AUS
I must not get the joke?
RZ33: CON
The huge increase in paper usage and bureaucracy is not worth the trivial archiving gains we would get in return.
RZ34: PER
RZ35: PER
RZ36: PER
RZ37: CON
I initially was going to vote per, and I think the basic idea is sound, but it was pointed out to me that any group of 6 MCs whose bill failed the Clark could force it to referendum in their capacity as private citizens, which would make the number of referendums in an election explode.
RZ38: AUS
I hate to get in the way of progress, but it was pointed out to me that the translation uses non-standard Talossan. This sounds weird to me, but I am no language expert.
VoC: NON
The MRPT discussed this at very long length, and ultimately decided to no longer supported this government. Our coalition deal was ambitious from the outset, but our ministers have not been as active as anyone would have liked, and Sir Davinescu makes some valid criticisms.
However, and I would say more importantly, this government has lost the Confidence of it's own Seneschal. While vaguely blaming the whole coalition, the MRPT has been repeatedly singled out by top members of the leading party, and the MRPT is tired of being a scapegoat for problems which, though some fall on squarely on the MRPT and it's ministers, should rightly be the responsibility of the government at large. The MRPT Ministers have resigned, myself included, on the basis of no longer possessing the trust of the Seneschal, and as such the MRPT's trust in the government has suffered even more.
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Post by Erschéveþ da Schir on Dec 20, 2015 12:22:32 GMT -6
RZ29 - AUS RZ30 - PER RZ31 - PER RZ32 - AUS RZ33 - CON RZ34 - PER RZ35 - PER RZ36 - PER RZ37 - PER RZ38 - PER I'll submit my VoC later. VoC - NON. I echo the remarks of my colleague Ian. This situation is truly regrettable, but voting otherwise would put a lot of us at odds with our consciences.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Dec 20, 2015 13:20:13 GMT -6
Right, so this is actually my first clark as an MRPT MC since the foundation of the party and sadly I have to already vote NON on the VoC. Obviously this is a decision taken by all MRPT MCs together, but I still want to explain where I stand on this. This government has not been what any of us had hoped for. Very few projects have been finished, various ministers are absent, the PM has been mostly invisible, with a few exceptions here and there. Sir AD has come up with a long list of criticisms, some of which I felt were over the top or even plain disingenuous, but we also have to acknowledge, painful as it that some of his comments were valid points. I have to acknowledge that my own party has played a role in this. We currently are in a phase where we do not have as many active members as our coalition partner, many of us are very busy with our lives outside Talossa and because of this we have not been able to make enough of a difference. Obviously we are responsible for supporting the cabinet so far. Now I obviously wasn't in the Cosa, but I think up to this clark this has been mostly a good decision. No the government has not been as active as we wanted to, but still we must not forget the good things that happened. With the help of Sir Cresti, memrise courses have been released that were a fun way to start learning Talossan. Personally I enjoyed these very much. The Foreign ministry has done some great work, the ministry of Culture has done some great work, the coins project, while sadly still not realised after many governments of various partisan composition have had the ambition of realising it is still alive, although in a dormant state. Sir AD compared the current government to the last RUMP government. I think one of the main reasons the RUMP lost so badly after that term was the immigration stop, together with the complete disappearance of most ministers. Nothing is lost when an ambitious project like coins is postponed another term, however the ministry immigration forms the lungs our nation. (The chancery is the heart, obviously, and we, the Ziu are the brains, though I imagine that means if Talossa ever goes to visit a psychiatrist, (s)he might come up with a pretty worrying diagnosis) Without immigration, Talossa would run into serious problems. Thankfully, that is not the case, we are still breathing. ( In terms of legislation, I feel this was actually a great term. s;reu Plätschisch stood at the basis of a bipartisan compromise to remove the king's veto, we finally removed the closed provinces rule, various problems with our law have been fixed, and with a bit of good will, we might still finally start asking parties to tell us who we are election (sort of).) We also have to realise that Talossa is a part time thing for everyone. We cannot expect ministers to be active all the time and I have great respect for anyone who tries to make Talossa a little better (knowing from experience how difficult it is being in government). Also, I dont think anyone ever expected the government to achieve all its goals. It would have been the best government ever in Talossa, by far, if it had done that. The coalition programme was very very ambitious (probably a bit too ambitious). Still, there is a limit to how much delay is acceptable. At some point we as MCs have to make a judgment about whether we believe the government is doing enough and at that point we should consider if it might not be best to acknowledge that we have not done well enough. A difficult question, without a straightforward and easy answer. It might have helped if the PM had shown that he still had confidence in this cabinet or his ministers and ambition to improve things. However, instead, while he also had the courage to apologise for the governments mistakes, he then switched from being the PM to election mode, publicly blaming his coalition partners and HIS ministers for "weighing the FDT down". Something I felt was hard to take serious. He lamented his decision not to take action by pushing replacing ministers. Apparently for fear of his coalition partners. Publicly expressing his lack of confidence in them, without connectiong this to any conclusions, apparently is ok though. Understandably, the Distain and the deputy minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration did draw their conclusions from the words of the PM (and similar partisan remarks from two other FDT ministers earlier this month). The Distain has in my view been more visible than the PM himself, also taking over for the minister of Finance and temporarily for the AG. Deputy minister Plätschisch has also been active at two of the more succesful ministries. Their departure therefore does not at all increase my confidence in this government, but rather the opposite. This effectively means the end of the FDT-MRPT coalition. The PMs words suggest that this would be relief for the government, because now there is only one party (the progressives) still weighing them down" This feels totally unbelievable to me. Its not wrong to discuss some of the weak points. One minister that has gotten criticism from other FDTers is the minister of stuff. I have great respect for him. For many many government terms kot.net has been out of date now and there have been plans to create a new portal. After many failures, he is the one who finally realised this. However, this term he has not been very active. Understandable, as he leads a busy live, but we have to acknowledge that this has not helped the government. Still, I cant imagine anyone beliefs that without him we suddenly would have a fully updated website. After all, anyone (and this goes for other government members, but also the opposition) could have helped to do this. Hes invited people to help him many times, yet few ever did. The minister is politically responsible, he's not a civil servant. Updating the site is not a political issue. So if people claim that they would have updated the site, I would ask, why not do it now? I'm not saying this means minister Pinatsch was active enough btw, just pointing out why some claims are not entirely believable. I also dont believe that without the help of other parties or without the two people who have now resigned, we would now have coins, or reports on government progress, or a functioning telecommuna. Various of the coalition agenda itself have been realised by an MRPT MC, i'm not sure that this would have happened otherwise. It's too late to prove any of these things now anyway. But essentially what I'm saying is there are reasons to vote üc and reasons to vote non. Did the PM help to convince me (or the rest of the MRPT) to vote Üc? Not really, it rather seemed like he doesnt really believe in it anymore either. Did the resignation of the Distain or the deputy minister of Foreign and Immigration help? No, not at all actually. Obviously, the VoC wont actually matters. We will have election next term either way. Maybe this is why the government doesnt really seem to care anymore. Both an Üc vote or a Non vote would essentially be symbolic. In this case, the best thing to might just be to be honest. Do I have confidence in the current government? No. PS This does not mean I would personally rule out a future coalition with the FDT, or anyone else, provided there are some much needed staff changes, hopefully some more active new MRPT members as well, though I imagine we might have a relatively small role and focus on making Talossa better through meaningful reforms. We should always be willing to take our responsibility when we can though. tldr: VoC - NON (my other votes can be found in an earlier post) Tagging Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H., so he doesnt have to read all the rest if he's busy.
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Post by M.T. Patritz da Biondeu on Dec 20, 2015 19:48:02 GMT -6
RZ29 - Per
RZ30 - Per
RZ31 - Per
RZ32 - Con
RZ33 - Per
RZ34 - Per
RZ35 - Con
RZ36 - Per
RZ37 - Con
RZ38 - Aus
VOC - No
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Post by Françal Ian Lux on Dec 20, 2015 19:59:30 GMT -6
I abstain in all bills. I'm voting no on the VoC. This government can no longer function with half of it gone. I suggest we have a snap election as soon as possible.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Dec 20, 2015 21:24:50 GMT -6
I abstain in all bills. I'm voting no on the VoC. This government can no longer function with half of it gone. I suggest we have a snap election as soon as possible. This is the last Clark...there is already going to be an election.
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Dec 21, 2015 5:00:44 GMT -6
Please people, we had 2 people voting on the bills one day and on the VOC later. Right now, I am not allowed to accept votes on bills unless the VOC is filled in.
You CAN change your VOC vote later, but you can't abstain. You can put Yes and change it to a No, or No and change it to a Yes.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 21, 2015 11:57:24 GMT -6
People are just queuing up to bail from the Government like rats from a sinking ship, which is distressing. Barring intervention like the King finding his Witt password and dismissing him, C. Carlüs Xheraltescù is still Seneschál and intends to remain so until the new Cosâ is elected. The departing ModRad ministers will be replaced forthwith, and insha'llah, a LOT of new work will be possible in the next 6 weeks or so.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Dec 21, 2015 12:32:51 GMT -6
People are just queuing up to bail from the Government like rats from a sinking ship, which is distressing. Barring intervention like the King finding his Witt password and dismissing him, C. Carlüs Xheraltescù is still Seneschál and intends to remain so until the new Cosâ is elected. The departing ModRad ministers will be replaced forthwith, and insha'llah, a LOT of new work will be possible in the next 6 weeks or so. I'm glad to hear it. An active Government is important for the country.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 21, 2015 12:57:44 GMT -6
... you've been acting kind, constructive and friendly the last few days, AD. Is something wrong?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 21, 2015 14:47:08 GMT -6
48RZ29: Austanéu 48RZ30: Per! 48RZ31: Per, I suppose. 48RZ32: Austanéu 48RZ33: Contra 48RZ34: Per 48RZ35: Contra 48RZ36: Per 48RZ37: Contra RZ4838: Contra, because the translation in this bill uses non-standard Talossan.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Dec 21, 2015 18:06:48 GMT -6
I can't vote on the clark via database.... please fix
Warning: mysql_result() [function.mysql-result]: Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 11 in /home/talossa/public_html/files/clark.php on line 170 the current clark does not exist
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Dec 21, 2015 20:00:52 GMT -6
I can't vote on the clark via database.... please fix Warning: mysql_result() [function.mysql-result]: Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 11 in /home/talossa/public_html/files/clark.php on line 170 the current clark does not exist That's because the Clark was closed for the deadline for voting... Post me your votes and I will see if I can add them
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Dec 21, 2015 20:01:48 GMT -6
48RZ29: Austanéu 48RZ30: Per! 48RZ31: Per, I suppose. 48RZ32: Austanéu 48RZ33: Contra 48RZ34: Per 48RZ35: Contra 48RZ36: Per 48RZ37: Contra RZ4838: Contra, because the translation in this bill uses non-standard Talossan. I cannot accept your vote, since no VOC was entered. I am sorry, but unless the law changed, a vote without a VOC is invalid.
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