Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Aug 2, 2015 11:08:25 GMT -6
It's only common sense to have the Seneschal and the Distain as members of the Cosâ. Is this not a requirement? Not really. The Cosa and the Senats have technically the same powers, bar voting on VoCs, so it can't really be argued that the Seneschal ought to be a member of the most "powerful" house. Then, most matters are currently discussed by all MZs jointly (even voting takes place simultaneously), so you don't really feel the difference between having a MC or a Senator serving as Seneschal. Unlinke most upper houses, the Senate isn't quite a "retirement house". As long as the ZRT still exists as a separate party, two Senators out of eight are Party Leaders, and two more have been in the past; half of them sit in the Cabinet. That doesn't seem like the composition of a junior house, to me. Why the Distain, by the way, as he is not even a Minister, technically?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Aug 2, 2015 11:11:07 GMT -6
I take it that "usually" means that since when Hooligan was to become PM in 2007 (or sometime like that) he resigned his Senate seat to accept Cosa seats, then every other PM should do that even if there has never been any provision barring Senators to hold the Seneschalsqab. I just meant that, more often than not, the Seneschal is an MC. I don't really have a problem with senators being Seneschal.
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Post by Françal Ian Lux on Aug 2, 2015 11:20:46 GMT -6
It's only common sense to have the Seneschal and the Distain as members of the Cosâ. Is this not a requirement? Not really. The Cosa and the Senats have technically the same powers, bar voting on VoCs, so it can't really be argued that the Seneschal ought to be a member of the most "powerful" house. Then, most matters are currently discussed by all MZs jointly (even voting takes place simultaneously), so you don't really feel the difference between having a MC or a Senator serving as Seneschal. Unlinke most upper houses, the Senate isn't quite a "retirement house". As long as the ZRT still exists as a separate party, two Senators out of eight are Party Leaders, and two more have been in the past; half of them sit in the Cabinet. That doesn't seem like the composition of a junior house, to me. Why the Distain, by the way, as he is not even a Minister, technically? That's exactly my issue here. "...you don't really feel the difference between having an MC or a Senator...". Am I the only one crazy enough to think there should be some lines drawn between the two chambers? I'm not implying that the Senats is a "retirement house". In fact, I actually want to further define the duties of the Senats so that it's not seemingly overpowered by the more "powerful" house. In accoradance with what I said before, it's only natural to draw lines between the two. It's only natural to identify the two distinct. Otherwise, we might as well have a unicamiral system and a national assembly.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Aug 2, 2015 13:17:18 GMT -6
I guess it's a good thing then that no real spending took place during the previous Cosa's (if we are to take Sir Cresti's position) because those budget bills would therefore be illegal.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 2, 2015 19:30:28 GMT -6
No. Usually the Seneschal is a member of the Cosa, but the current one and I believe the previous two have been senators. I take it that "usually" means that since when Hooligan was to become PM in 2007 (or sometime like that) he resigned his Senate seat to accept Cosa seats, then every other PM should do that even if there has never been any provision barring Senators to hold the Seneschalsqab. ...no. "Usually" in English is also a word to express frequency over time. In this case, it means more often than not... including well before the Baron Hooligan. We might point to Tecladeir, Buchholtz, Castiglha, Válcadác'h, Conâ, Carbonèl, Pope, Navâ, Wardlow, Morris, Mananséir, Toumayan, McGarry, Metáiriâ, Buffone, Erni, Wozniak, Laurieir, Buffone, Schneider, Murphy, Prachel, and everyone earlier, but not Cantaloûr, Conâ (a different time), Schwichtenberg, or Metáiriâ (a different time). That's rough and as best I can tell, but I think it illustrates how Cresti was using the word "usually." S:reu da Schir, you're also being unnecessarily rude to S:reux Plätschisch and Lux in another thread tonight (http://talossa.proboards.com/thread/10887/more-inorganic-budgets-act?page=1&scrollTo=134945)... it might be a good time to take a break and sort out whatever's bothering you, since everyone here tonight but you seems to me to be patient, polite, and reasonable.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Aug 3, 2015 0:43:05 GMT -6
I take it that "usually" means that since when Hooligan was to become PM in 2007 (or sometime like that) he resigned his Senate seat to accept Cosa seats, then every other PM should do that even if there has never been any provision barring Senators to hold the Seneschalsqab. ...no. "Usually" in English is also a word to express frequency over time. In this case, it means more often than not... including well before the Baron Hooligan. We might point to Tecladeir, Buchholtz, Castiglha, Válcadác'h, Conâ, Carbonèl, Pope, Navâ, Wardlow, Morris, Mananséir, Toumayan, McGarry, Metáiriâ, Buffone, Erni, Wozniak, Laurieir, Buffone, Schneider, Murphy, Prachel, and everyone earlier, but not Cantaloûr, Conâ (a different time), Schwichtenberg, or Metáiriâ (a different time). That's rough and as best I can tell, but I think it illustrates how Cresti was using the word "usually." Of course he meant that. I was suggesting that not many times, as far as I'm aware, the question of where the Seneschal holds seats has arisen. Alexandreu, I had a very fine weekend, I played some tennis, I spent time with my family, I collected my July salary, I played the trumped at a wedding... There's nothing bothering me, as far as I know (and if you know better, as it seems, I'm happy to hear you ). The perceived rudeness, of which I am truly sorry, is perhaps a result of my questions being repeatedly ignored. Also, you might also want to amend you statement as I didn't engage at all with Ian Platschisch in the thread you mentioned, Txec did. If you want to belittle me, do it the right way!
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Aug 3, 2015 2:07:16 GMT -6
Can we just acknowledge that... I am one of the weird persons that immediately gets boils upon somebody being unnecessarily harsh and rude towards someone else who does not deserve it?
Acknowledged.
Now, reading this thread, and the other thread, the only time I developped boils was when AD posted his perceived accusations of Lüc's rudeness. I'm just saying...
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 3, 2015 6:49:28 GMT -6
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Aug 3, 2015 7:29:21 GMT -6
Just so I'm aware of what's happening here, we are no longer discussing the finer points of this particular budget act, but rather, whether or not a Senator can propose such an act. (Granted, an interesting legal discussion, but one that should have been had a long time ago.) And now, we have one MZ who took offense to another MZ's "accusation" that a third MZ was being "unnecessarily rude" to a fourth and fifth MZ?
Can we really not find anything better to disagree on?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 3, 2015 7:34:33 GMT -6
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Post by Françal Ian Lux on Aug 3, 2015 22:56:48 GMT -6
Oh I answered all your questions. It just seems like you're either refusing to understand my point, or there's some confusion in communication. Then again, as several had pointed out, this is NOT really the place to discuss any of this
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Aug 4, 2015 6:30:40 GMT -6
I do understand your point, and I don't deny that it has some merits (having Cosa and Senate acting more as separated entities is indeed desirable), but for example I didn't detect an answer to "Why the Distain, by the way, as he is not even a Minister, technically?" in your reply.
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