The Catchment Area Reform Act

[Lüc da Schir]

WHEREAS, (whereases will be added as soon as possible);

THEREFORE the Ziu hereby amends El Lexhatx section E article 7 as detailed below.

Article 7.3.3 is added with the following text:

7.3.3 Any citizen who happens to find himself living in the catchment area of a different province, subsequent to the creation of a new province or the alteration of catchment area boundaries, will be allowed to choose between remaining a citizen of his current province or becoming a citizen of the province whose catchment area he now lives in. The provisions of article 7.3.2 apply to this rule as if the citizen is assigned to the wrong province.

Articles 7.4 to 7.11 are amended as follows:

7.4. ATATÜRK PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Atatürk Province: All suburbs of Milwaukee within Milwaukee County, which lie to the north and east of the City of Milwaukee; the Wisconsin Counties of Washington, Ozaukee, Sheboygan, Calumet, Manitowoc, Kewaunee, and Door; and the U.S. states of Massachussetts, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, and the Canadian provinces of Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland & Labrador and Nova Scotia.

Overseas, the nations of Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Tajikistan, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Northern Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Banghladesh, Maldives, Nepal, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Egypt, Sudan, South Sudan, Djibouti, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Dem. Rep. of the Congo, Rep. of the Congo, Gabon, Sao Tomé, Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea.

7.5. BENITO PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Mussolini Province: the Wisconsin counties of Waukesha, Jefferson, Dane, Marathon, Wood, Portage, Waupaca, Waushara, Winnebago, Marquette, Green Lake, Fond du Lac, Columbia, and Dodge. Overseas, the nations of Italy, San Marino, Vatican City, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Andorra, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Hungary, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Moldova and Cyprus; plus all nations in Africa north of the Equator not listed elsewhere.

7.6. VUODE PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Vuode Province: The City of Milwaukee (WI) and the U.S. states of Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, Missouri.

7.7. MARICOPA PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Maricopa Province: the Wisconsin counties of Polk, Barron, St. Croix, Pierce, Dunn, Chippewa, Eau Claire, Clark, Pepin, Buffalo, Trempeleau, Jackson, La Crosse, Monroe, Juneau, Adams, Vernon, Crawford, Richland, Sauk, Grant, Iowa, Lafayette, and Green; and the U.S. states of Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, Hawaii, California, Arkansas and Louisiana. Overseas, the nations of South America (except Brazil) and all of continental Central America.

7.8. FLORENCIA PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Florencia Province: the Wisconsin counties of Florence, Douglas, Bayfield, Ashland, Iron, Vilas, Burnett, Washburn, Sawyer, Rusk, Taylor, Price, Oneida, Lincoln, Langlade, Forest, Menominee, Shawano, Marinette, Oconto, Outagamie, and Brown; and the U.S. states of Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Minnesota, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, and the Canadian provinces and territories of Yukon, Northwest, Nunavut, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario.

7.9. MARITIIMI-MAXHESTIC PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Maritiimi-Maxhestic Province: All suburbs of the City of Milwaukee within Milwaukee County which lie to the south and west of the City of Milwaukee, and also the Wisconsin Counties of Racine, Kenosha, Walworth, and Rock; and the U.S. states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, the District of Columbia, Delaware and Maryland. Overseas, all the nations of insular Central America and Puerto Rico.

7.10. CÉZEMBRE PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Cézembre Province: the nations of Ireland, United Kingdom, Iceland, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Monaco and any European nation not listed elsewhere.

7.11. FIOVA PROVINCE. Talossan citizens living in the following areas shall be assigned to Fiova Province: the nations of Australia, New Zealand, all Oceanian nations, all Asian nations not listed elsewhere, Brazil, South Africa, Madagascar, Lesotho, Swaziland, Mozambique, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, Malawi, Angola, and all nations in Africa north of the Equator not listed elsewhere, and all nations of the world not included elsewhere.


Noi urent q'estadra så:
Lüc da Schir (Senator, Benito)
C. Carlüs Xheraltescú (Senator, Fiovâ)
Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă (MC, FreeDems)
Sir Cresti Mataiwos Siervicül (MC, RUMP)
Glüc da Dhi (MC, MRPT)

[Lüc da Schir]

TL;DR:
1. Cézembre's Wisconsin catchment zone is reassigned to Benito.
2. Benito's American catchment area is reassigned to Vuode.
3. Vuodean Delaware and Maryland are transferred to M-M. The DC Metropolitan area is under a single province.
4. Florencia gets most of Fiova's American catchment area besides Arkansas and Louisiana which go to Maricopa.
5. Benito, Cézembre and Fiova have no catchment areas in America.
6. Outside of the USA, M-M gets all the Caribbean islands.
7. Maricopa gets all continental Central and South America besides Brazil which remains Fiovan.
8. Atatürk gets all Arab states plus Iran and Afghanistan, and northeastern Africa.
9. Northwestern Africa goes to Benito.
10. Southern Africa goes to Fiova, who gets also all Eastern Asian nations and Oceania.
11. Benito has Southern and Balcanic Europe and Cézembre has Northern Europe plus all of the former Soviet Union.
12. English-speaking (Vuode) and French-speaking (Vuode) Canada are now parts of different provinces.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

Can I ask why the change to eliminate all of the American catchment areas from Benito, Cezembre, and Fiova? A large portion of Talossan citizens are from America or at the very least the continent of North America. It seems odd to me also that of all of South America, if we are moving it to Maricopa, we are keeping one single country, Brazil, out of that move. Why Brazil? It almost looks like you are trying to tailor the provinces to fit.

[Lüc da Schir]

Mar 10, 2015 9:19:36 GMT -6 Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă said:

Can I ask why the change to eliminate all of the American catchment areas from Benito, Cezembre, and Fiova? A large portion of Talossan citizens are from America or at the very least the continent of North America. 

That idea came up during the discussion - three overseas-only provinces and five mostly US-only.

It seems odd to me also that of all of South America, if we are moving it to Maricopa, we are keeping one single country, Brazil, out of that move. Why Brazil? It almost looks like you are trying to tailor the provinces to fit.

I didn't touch South America. Brazil was already Fiovan, the rest was already Maricopan (or at least most of it) and I kept it this way.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

This looks like a good start. Have you done any analysis of the proportion of recent immigrants that would go to each province under this proposal, or the population size of each catchment area? This evening or tomorrow I'll see if I can prepare some maps based on this bill, for comparison with the maps I have of the catchment area under current law.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

Mar 10, 2015 12:05:15 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

Mar 10, 2015 9:19:36 GMT -6 Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă said:

Can I ask why the change to eliminate all of the American catchment areas from Benito, Cezembre, and Fiova? A large portion of Talossan citizens are from America or at the very least the continent of North America. 

That idea came up during the discussion - three overseas-only provinces and five mostly US-only.

It seems odd to me also that of all of South America, if we are moving it to Maricopa, we are keeping one single country, Brazil, out of that move. Why Brazil? It almost looks like you are trying to tailor the provinces to fit.

I didn't touch South America. Brazil was already Fiovan, the rest was already Maricopan (or at least most of it) and I kept it this way.

It makes sense to me to move Brazil to Maricopa then. Is there a particular reason why Brazil should remain (and be the only) country in South America not with the rest of the countries?

[Lüc da Schir]

Mar 10, 2015 12:06:41 GMT -6 Sir C. M. Siervicül said:

This looks like a good start. Have you done any analysis of the proportion of recent immigrants that would go to each province under this proposal, or the population size of each catchment area? This evening or tomorrow I'll see if I can prepare some maps based on this bill, for comparison with the maps I have of the catchment area under current law.

Sure. Taking into account all prospectives who had their application posted on the Immigration board from January 1st, 2014 (totalling 112 immigrants):

Province	#	% (swing from ideal share %)
ATATÜRK	12	10,7 % (-1,8%)
BENITO	20	17,8 % (+5,3%)
CEZEMBRE	17	15,1 % (+2,6%)
FLORENCIA	9	8,1 % (-4,4%)
FIOVA	19	17,0 % (+4,5%)
MARICOPA	12	10,7 % (-1,8%)
MAR.-MAXH.	14	12,5 % (0%)
VUODE	9	8,1 % (-4,4%)

The ideal share would be 12,5 % (100/8) each.

This table takes into account all citizens who had their citizenship granted after January 1st, 2014 (they're 38, so ideally almost 5 per province):

Province	reformed #	current #
ATATÜRK	1	4
BENITO	5	6
CEZEMBRE	9	7
FLORENCIA	3	1
FIOVA	6	3
MARICOPA	5	5
MAR.-MAXH.	8	10
VUODE	1	4

[Lüc da Schir]

Mar 10, 2015 13:12:07 GMT -6 Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă said:

Mar 10, 2015 12:05:15 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

That idea came up during the discussion - three overseas-only provinces and five mostly US-only.
I didn't touch South America. Brazil was already Fiovan, the rest was already Maricopan (or at least most of it) and I kept it this way.

It makes sense to me to move Brazil to Maricopa then. Is there a particular reason why Brazil should remain (and be the only) country in South America not with the rest of the countries?

Only linguistic reasons, I think. If we're good to move it to Maricopa, no problem.

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

Yes, as I recall, the reason Brazilians go to Fiôvâ is that Brazil speaks Portuguese instead of Spanish.

But then again, they speak Dutch in Suriname, French in French Guiana, and English in Guyana, so it doesn't make so much sense to stick them in with the rest of South America, either.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

Mar 11, 2015 14:19:06 GMT -6 Iustì Carlüs Canun said:

Yes, as I recall, the reason Brazilians go to Fiôvâ is that Brazil speaks Portuguese instead of Spanish.

I think the reason is more that Xhorxh Asmour was a reviensadeir, and Fiova's catchment area was drawn up in part as a patchwork of the home states and countries of reviensadeirs. That's what New Zealand, Brazil, and the Czech Republic have in common. Portugal just went along for the ride.

Mar 11, 2015 14:19:06 GMT -6 Iustì Carlüs Canun said:

But then again, they speak Dutch in Suriname, French in French Guiana, and English in Guyana, so it doesn't make so much sense to stick them in with the rest of South America, either.

Under current law, it would seem that the Guianas are actually in Cézembre's catchment area.

[Glüc da Dhi]

So, Ive tried my best to find out the location of everyone to produce the following statistics

Current citizens	Assigned to:	Living in catchment area:	Living in proposed* catchment area:
Atatürk	29	29**	12
Benito	34	38	20
Cézembre	29	35	46
Fiova	25	17	22
Florencia	23	27	35
Maricopa	39	37	33
MM	30	30	30
Vuode	17	13	28

Citizens immigrated 2010-Present	Assigned to:	Living in catchment area:	Living in proposed* catchment area:
Atatürk	15	15	4
Benito	25	28	14
Cézembre	20	23	30
Fiova	11	11	19
Florencia	8	10	13
Maricopa	31	27	22
MM	21	20	21
Vuode	12	9	20

* Brazil still in Fiova
** The numbers may in some cases but that doesnt mean these are the same people. For each province there are quite a few people wrongly assigned.

[Glüc da Dhi]

I think the direction of this bill is a very good one. It makes very much sense for Cézembre not to have a US catchment area.

In terms of equality (if current citizen numbers are any indication of future immigration), the bills seems to do well for what used to be the weaker provinces, Fiova, Vuode, Florencia.

One major problem though: Atatürks catchment area is completely destroyed. This is mostly due to Ireland (5 citizens), Scotland (4) and Wales (3) going to Cézembre, which was already doing fine.
In any other way, it makes much more sense for these areas to be part of Cézembre's catchment area, but assuming more or less equal catchment areas is needed for this bill to have enough support, this is a problem.

[Eðo Grischun]

Mar 11, 2015 8:55:47 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

Mar 10, 2015 12:06:41 GMT -6 Sir C. M. Siervicül said:

This looks like a good start. Have you done any analysis of the proportion of recent immigrants that would go to each province under this proposal, or the population size of each catchment area? This evening or tomorrow I'll see if I can prepare some maps based on this bill, for comparison with the maps I have of the catchment area under current law.

Sure. Taking into account all prospectives who had their application posted on the Immigration board from January 1st, 2014 (totalling 112 immigrants):

Province	#	% (swing from ideal share %)
ATATÜRK	12	10,7 % (-1,8%)
BENITO	20	17,8 % (+5,3%)
CEZEMBRE	17	15,1 % (+2,6%)
FLORENCIA	9	8,1 % (-4,4%)
FIOVA	19	17,0 % (+4,5%)
MARICOPA	12	10,7 % (-1,8%)
MAR.-MAXH.	14	12,5 % (0%)
VUODE	9	8,1 % (-4,4%)

The ideal share would be 12,5 % (100/8) each.

This table takes into account all citizens who had their citizenship granted after January 1st, 2014 (they're 38, so ideally almost 5 per province):

Province	reformed #	current #
ATATÜRK	1	4
BENITO	5	6
CEZEMBRE	9	7
FLORENCIA	3	1
FIOVA	6	3
MARICOPA	5	5
MAR.-MAXH.	8	10
VUODE	1	4

Maybe I'm reading the data wrong, but does this mean the proposed reform shows a reduction in intake for 3 of the provinces (my own constituency included), while M-M still receives a lion's share? Only Cezembre and Fiova seem to benefit from the proposed change. Unless, I'm missing something?

[Glüc da Dhi]

Lüc's table is a very small dataset. (For Vuode we're talking about 3 citizens, thats hardly significant.) Might be better considering a longer period, as in the second table, since there isnt really a reason future immigration is going to resemble 2014 more than the entire period 2010-2014 or even longer. In that sense there is still a problem (Atatürk), but I really think in the case of Vuode, this bill will increase the share of immigration to the province.

[Eðo Grischun]

Mar 11, 2015 16:03:49 GMT -6 Glüc da Dhi said:

Ireland (5 citizens), Scotland (4) and Wales (3) going to Cézembre

Explain the reasoning behind this, because I'm struggling with it.


Is this down to some 'celtic connection'? If so, it's not going to achieve whatever you think it will achieve. If it's to try and connect people together in a shared culture kind of way then this shows a complete misunderstanding of modern regional cultures and politics. The majority of Scottish people have more in common with English folks from Cumberland and Newcastle regions than with folks from Cardiff or Dublin. Even then, the majority of Glaswegians have more in common with people from Cardiff than with Edinburgh! If it's down to some historical linguistic thing then it has no bearing on today's world and the change won't achieve anything in a real world ('living') sense.

The modern world is too multicultural and politically diverse to say this country belongs to that province and the other to the other.

I would much prefer a system that simply gives all Talossan provinces a fair shake of the immigration stick than have provinces with some kind of geographic identity (which won't actually exist because the modern world's countries are too diverse for simple labelling of this fashion).