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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 27, 2014 17:55:57 GMT -6
Thank you, Domnul Davinescu. I turn to Senator Preston, once again: My Apologies. Apparently, my opponent cannot understand my comments, so he makes assumptions that are false and misleading. It's sad that he has to stoop to this level of rhetoric. I was hoping we could keep this debate civil. I'll be clear. If a person is NOT a citizen of the Kingdom of Talossa, they do not automatically receive the rights and privileges of a Citizen. We don't and shouldn't treat those rights and privileges as if they were door prizes for finding the Talossa Witt. Once a person becomes a Citizen, then they keep those rights and privileges until the day they renounce. It doesn't matter how active or inactive they are. Unless my opponent can provide one incident of where a non-citizen had their "basic human rights" violated by anyone in Talossa, then I do not see the need to alter our Covenant of Rights. This is another example of fixing something that isn't broken. This debate is still a civil one. I have neither "resorted" to calling names, nor have I insulted you in any other way, and I do not intend to do so. It is not my wish to offend or hurt you in any manner, however, I will be very vocal and descriptive, if you will, of what you are fighting against (or for, depending on how you see it.) Again, I will make use of that same descriptory, admittedly exaggerating manner: Suppose we had no law penalising murder. Would you still be advocating that we change no laws, and introduce no altering to our Criminal Codes, merely because nobody has seen any threat, or violation, that would suggest that murder should be penalised? Or, take the most recent case with ESB: I cannot prosecute, as Attorney-General, ESB for Election Fraud, because people thought: Many people had an Epic Outcry (pun intended!), that I were not charging ESB with election fraud. I cannot do that, because there is no law prohibiting election fraud! Now I ask you: Do you wish to let go the one judge, jury or justice unpunished, that will handle a tourist, or any non-citizen inorganically, denying them their basic rights of facing their accuser, having the right to a swift trial, or of being assumed innocent, simply because they can, and simply because it "has not gone wrong yet"?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2014 20:32:12 GMT -6
And Sir Mick, we'll have one final rebuttal from you on the subject, and then we'll move on.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 27, 2014 21:13:37 GMT -6
And Sir Mick, we'll have one final rebuttal from you on the subject, and then we'll move on. Thank you, Sir Alexandreu. Suppose we had no law penalising murder. Would you still be advocating that we change no laws, and introduce no altering to our Criminal Codes, merely because nobody has seen any threat, or violation, that would suggest that murder should be penalised? We also have no laws penalizing bank robbery, stock manipulation, breaking and entering, or jaywalking. Should we be rushing to draw up bills to cover these actions that have never occurred either? Why stop there? Let's make laws in case we are invaded by little green men from Mars, just in case. I'm advocating making laws to address actual wrongs. Things that have happened. As of yet (at least in the past 8 years), we have not had any wandering non-citizen complain that their Human Rights were being violated while reading the Witt. Or anyone murdered. Again - the Covenant of Rights and Freedoms are for the Citizens of Talossa. It's a privilege that is earned, by joining the Kingdom. Not by standing outside the wall, and yelling over it. Like barbarians would do. That is incorrect. We have one. It's 36 RZ9 - The Ballot Security Act. There was a case of Voter Fraud. It was investigated, and a result was determined. I know this because : Notification of Attempted Voter Fraud.So, we have a foundation of a law, that we can now augment to cover people like ESB. THAT can be amended. In that this is so vague and convoluted, I would have to reply : "I guess so. Or maybe not." I truly believe if anything so grievous happened to a wandering stranger, or an occasional visitor - we wouldn't have to have a judge or jury to handle the horrid violation of their Human Rights. Because we would never see them again. Or we would have heard about it by now. They have nothing vested in our Kingdom, so I doubt they would even care.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2014 21:26:25 GMT -6
All right. We'll move on now, I think. Sir Mick, looking at one specific topic, let's examine your views on immigration into the Kingdom. It's maybe the most important issue that there is: can you tell me what changes you would push for, to help improve the immigration process?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 28, 2014 7:49:02 GMT -6
Before I talk about changes / improvements to the Immigration process, I would like to take a moment to commend Ián B. Anglatzarâ for doing a tremendous job as Immigration Minister. He's quick to greet our new arrivals, and takes an active interest in the new Immigrants travels to Citizenship.
Sadly, after that I see the same small group of 4-6 people engaging the newly arrived immigrant. What I am NOT seeing is the TALOSSAsisstant program being used on many, if not most new Immigrants. I think it's integral to have The Office of the New Citizens Committee get involved with the newly arrived Immigrant from the first day the Immigrant is introduced to the Kingdom. We need to reinvigorate this program. TA's are an integral part of the process, and they aren't being used recently.
Perhaps if on the Immigration section we set up a chat room for new Immigrants, where they can get to know the others that are going through the immigration process. Have an area on the Immigration board where Immigrants can pose questions to specific Citizens about what they do, or what their job entails. Some specific suggestions are a Q & A with the Seneschal, Mençei, Túischac'h, a Justice, etc. Let them ask the questions directly. Have an area in the Chat room that all Talossans can interact with the Immigrants.
Basically what I am suggesting is more interaction by ALL the Citizens of Talossa, not just a handful of dedicated members in a corner of the Kingdom.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 28, 2014 7:49:52 GMT -6
Thank you, Sir Mick. MC da Lhiun, same question?
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 28, 2014 8:14:57 GMT -6
I partly agree with Senator Preston (and I completely agree with the commendation of Ministreu Anglatzarâ - the Coalition could not possibly have chosen a better individual for this position. My next glass shall be raised unto you, good sire!): We have an obligation to engage the new immigrants in interesting talks, and assist them better. But you can produce only so much of a colloquy on your own, when the immigrants and prospectives are not truly interested in becoming a part of this nation.
Let me be clear that I do not believe in making the immigration laws stricter, but I do believe that our citizens are sometimes too 'inflationary' with the Petition for a Royal Grant of Citizenship, and I believe this is, where we ought to have a discussion. Citizens should realise that they, too, have an obligation to the Kingdom, by examining whether a particular immigrant truly deserves to be petitioned for a citizenship:
Is he, or she, really that interested in our nationette? Is it more of a foolish gesture, and if yes, Can he or she become involved with, and in our Kingdom regardless?
This is something that the NCC, and other Talossans should realise. We don't have an examination period to torture excited immigrants, but to sort out those applicants that will be naturalised for naught.
I opine that a bill will not be necessary for such a realisation. I believe that a mere discussion ought to suffice, so that our citizens realise the power which they hold in requesting a Royal Grant of Citizenship.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 28, 2014 8:29:21 GMT -6
Since you fine folks are essentially in agreement, I think we will forgo rebuttals.
MC da Lhiun: Turning to local matters. we can see that the level of activity in the provinces is generally low. There has not been much activity here in Maritiimi-Maxhestic, for example. How will you help fix that? Is that something that you can fix?
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 29, 2014 17:37:32 GMT -6
Thank you, Domnul Davinescu, and forgive my late answer. I meant to reply much earlier, but private life got into my writing up a response.
Provincial activity - or the lack thereof - is something, which has indeed given me lots of woe. I wish to see our province thrive like, for example, the Fiôvân Province. But there is one component, which one must not fail to see:
While the Fiôvân Province is packed with the original Reunisioners - themselves all proud to be part of this country, as we are proud to have welcomed them back (even if I was no part of it, when this happened) - together with their evolved personal subculture, our province has not had such a personal growth. Do let us face it: The activity of a province is measured by the activity of its inhabitants. As we have seen in the last General Election, the voting turn-out was extremely low. This suggests that there are very little active provincial citizens.
I wish we had a personal judiciary - but the need is not there, since the citizenry's participation in provincial life is so stunningly low. I wish we had recreational gatherings, such as games, poetry slams, book clubs, and what not. But again, the low participation levels crush my dreams. I wish we had so much more, but I fail to see how it could become relevant in such a dormant province!
I do not, therefore, believe that this is something I can fix. However, I am happy to oblige to any viable proposal; but I have not seen Senator Preston do anything else, other than to talk to the people of Maritiimi-Maxhestic, and urge them to participate in our provincial life. And indeed, what else could he do? There is nothing, but to hope, engage the people as much as one can, and give one's best...
I urge all of you; if any one citizen of Maritiimi-Maxhestic does, contrary to my ignorance, have an idea how to "fix" the activity levels in here, I would be more than happy if they spoke up - even if they should be against me holding a Senatorial position in Maritiimi-Maxhestic!
Thank you, again, for your forbearance!
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 29, 2014 17:52:47 GMT -6
Thank you. Sir Mick, same question? How will you spur activity in our province - if that's possible?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 29, 2014 19:35:36 GMT -6
I find myself in agreement with S:reu da Lhiun.
Let's be honest here. When it comes down to us, for all intents and purposes- we 3 are the only active citizens in M-M. At least for the last 7 months. We have roughly 20 people in our province. Some haven't posted in years. Some have never posted.
We can't create activities or events to coax these people out into the open to start being active. I wish it was different - that we could post and email the M-M Citizens to get them out. But I don't fell it would make any difference.
What we have to do now, is to welcome our new M-M Citizens as they walk into our Province. Via Private Message, by posting here, by any method possible. Make them feel wanted, and let them know that we are glad they are here. Find out what their interests are, and let's incorporate them into our social network. Be it sports, music, language, cooking, or even telling really bad jokes - let's embrace them as one of our own. Let's not only extend our hand in welcome, but offer them a sandwich and a beer ( on Hooligan's tab ).
Instead of us 3 creating events and the such - let the new citizens do that! Perhaps our non-active members will be drawn to posting here, and getting more active.
Nothing else seems to be working, Eh?
Thank you for your time.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 29, 2014 20:03:08 GMT -6
Another item of consensus, so perhaps no rebuttals.
Sir Mick: While Senatorial candidates do not run on a party ticket, you are a member of the RUMP party and are strongly associated with that party. I wonder if you would oblige us, however, and specifically address the ZRT and MRPT voters of our province. How will you work for them - what is your common ground?
I do not include the LibCon, the PC, the TWP, or the PP in the question. This is not out of any wish to exclude them, but to keep the scope of our question a little more manageable. No disrespect is intended to those other fine parties.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 29, 2014 21:20:28 GMT -6
Another item of consensus, so perhaps no rebuttals. Sir Mick: While Senatorial candidates do not run on a party ticket, you are a member of the RUMP party and are strongly associated with that party. I wonder if you would oblige us, however, and specifically address the ZRT and MRPT voters of our province. How will you work for them - what is your common ground?I do not include the LibCon, the PC, the TWP, or the PP in the question. This is not out of any wish to exclude them, but to keep the scope of our question a little more manageable. No disrespect is intended to those other fine parties. Sir Alexandreu - That's an easy question. I'm a citizen of M-M first. Any party affiliation comes after that . As you well know (smiles) - I have often voted on Bills contrary to the RUMP Party suggestions. I am not a "rubber stamp" for a RUMP produced Bill. That is why I have always asked the Province on how they suggest I vote on Bills. I post my reasons why I have voted a certain way, and I have never voted against a Bill because of the Political Parties that wrote it . I have also co-sponsored Bills written by members of other parties, and have gladly added co-sponsors to my Bills from any party. I do this because I work for the Province, and the Kingdom. The RUMP comes in 3rd when it comes to reasons on why and how I vote. Thank you.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 30, 2014 13:07:09 GMT -6
Thank you, Sir Mick. And let me take this moment to thank both candidates for their courtesy and cogency.
MC da Lhiun: While Senatorial candidates do not run on a party ticket, you are a member of the MRPT party and are strongly associated with that party. I wonder if you would oblige us, however, and specifically address the ZRT and RUMP voters of our province. How will you work for them - what is your common ground?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 1, 2014 9:02:32 GMT -6
MC da Lhiun, I will give you another day to respond, but then we'll need to move on.
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