Discussion of a Motion to Block the Immigration of E. S. B.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

EDIT: Allow me to rephrase the title of this thread as Dame Schiva is technically correct in a different thread.

Estimat Segnhor Túischac'h and fellow incoming MC's,

I would like to discuss the possibility of the following motion that I will put forward once the Cosa is formally seated:
 
WHEREAS Clause 8 of "The Umpteenth Immigration Reform Act" (35RZ22) states that "At any time before a Grant of Citizenship is conferred, the Sovereign, or members representing at least one-third of the Cosâ by seats, or members representing at least one-third of the Senäts, or any single Justice of the Uppermost Cort may petition the Chancery that the said Grant of Citizenship shall not be issued until such issuance shall be ordered by an act of the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall be required to grant all such petitions, and shall withhold any issuance of a Royal Grant of Citizenship to the prospective immigrant who is the subject of such a petition until such time as an act of the Ziu directing the issuance of such a grant becomes law."

THEREFORE I, Txec Róibeard dal Nordselva hereby MOVE that the Cosa block the immigration application of the former citizen known formally as Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu and informally as "ESB").

Signed,
Txec Róibeard dal Nordselva

Thoughts?

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I support this motion and the suspension of the typical immigration process, since this applicant is not at all typical and merits the stricter scrutiny of the Ziu. I am not suggesting any prejudice against such a future motion of citizenship or expressing any decision, but clearly this is a case that calls for the treatment of a deliberative body.

[Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir]

I would disagree with this motion, as the re immigration will allow for a trial to commence on the charges against ESB, so the Corts can make a decision regarding the continuation of his citizenship after the trial as without re immigration a trial cannot be helpd (based on my understanding of the discussions already had on this), however i understand that this would cause alot of difficutlies in the mean time. So if this he was allowed to re immigrate i would like to see strict restrictions on his Talossan activities until the Cort has come to a decision, but i dont know if it is organic to do so. However i would like to see a trial take place for ESB and the charges aganst him and a clear sentence from the corts before the Ziu makes a desicion. However this is just my view on this. (exuse my spelling for some reason the spell check on my laptop isnt working properly)

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

As mentioned elsewhere, he can be brought to trial even if he doesn't re-immigrate. There is some slight precedent against it, but that precedent seems very likely to be overturned.

There is no way to restrict his activities if he is permitted to immigrate. The Ziu lacks the power to do so.

I am confused, though, MC Cuntainça... you say you oppose this motion, but you also say that you want to see a trial before ESB becomes a citizen. Surely you know that it would take more than fourteen days before a trial concluded (probably even before it got underway!) If you want to see a trial first, then you should support the motion.

[Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir]

As a prospective citizen will he not be subject to the Corts in talossa? so a trial could go ahead? then the Cort could issue an injsuntion whilst the trial is in progress and then they can still make an ultimate decision, im not sure im being very clear sorry.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

He is exactly as subject to the courts now as he would be if he was not a prospective citizen. There is zero legal distinction.

I think that it is probably a bad idea to just hope that an injunction is issued in time to stop his immigration. He'd be eligible for a petition in, what, a week?

Why not just stop the normal two-weeks-and-a-petition procedure and talk about it, and vote? If everyone wants a trial first, then we have a trial first.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

The discussion is fairly moot as the Senate has successfully petitioned the Secretary of State to prevent a Grant of Citizenship.

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

Jan 24, 2014 18:13:33 GMT -6 Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă said:

The discussion is fairly moot as the Senate has successfully petitioned the Secretary of State to prevent a Grant of Citizenship.

I was about to point this out.

[Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir]

I know that the Senate has successfully petitioned the Secretary of State to prevent a grant of citizenship. Which I understand, however as I understand the Organic Law Article XVI: The Courts, Sections:- 10 and 12 only mentions "persons" and "violators" and does not say that the Corts are for trying citizens only. Also our law and legal systems are based under Anglo-American law under Organic law and as I'm aware in Anglo-American Law and most countries across the world are able to try, under law, non citizens so long as they are in the said country. and unless im mistaken there is nothing in organic law to say that is not possible and legal to try non citizens for crimes. I'm not sure this is the right place to say this, but I wish to say this and get peoples thoughts on this.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

Yes, general consensus is that there is some slight precedent perhaps against it, but that this precedent is very likely to be ignored and overturned.