45RZ1 - The 45th Cosa Budget Act

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

The Senator from Cézembre will begin the discussion.

[Glüc da Dhi]

Thank you.

Esteemed Mençei, Fellow Senators,

This clark, we face the task of making a decision about, by Talossan standards, quite a lot of money: ℓ510, that is 765 dollar, more than 90% of the current treasury. Investments like that require careful consideration and to be honest, I am still very much in doubt about it.

I'm very happy that the budget could be modified to replace the allocated funds for a number of ministries and offices with a smaller amount for general purposes. I'm also happy about amending the MiB II act for extra control on spending. I hope the Cosâ will take its responsibility to make sure the government will not spend money in an irresponsible way. I'm not yet convinced that in a situation where a majority of the Cosâ would normally not approve of a certain expense this will also automatically mean 1/3rd of the MCs can be bothered to object within two weeks, considering the usual inactivity of a nr of MCs. I hope I'm wrong about this though.

I have asked the Minister of Finance for guarantees regarding the amount of the mentioned 765 dollar that will actually be spend. From what I understood of his response, I did not get any. The Minister did mention, however, that he has a natural bias against spending and I do trust him on this. When money is budgeted without a specific purpose there is always the risk that the money will find projects to spend it on, rather than the other way round. With previous budgets in Talossa, this has not really been the case though, so I don't expect this to happen this time. Still, it's something to be careful about, especially when considering the established provincial fund. I do think it is a good idea to allow provinces to start up projects to be paid for by the treasury, but this does introduce a risk of provinces trying to get to the funds, even when this is not really the best way to spend the money. After all, the provinces do not get to keep the money they don't spend, so spending the money does not directly cost the provinces anything.

The biggest expense in the budget is of course, the coins. Its very hard to predict what the eventual cost/gain of this project will be. If I understand correctly, the intention of the Ministry is only to sell these coins, not to buy them at face value again. This seems logical, since otherwise we cant really profit from it. It does mean though, that these coins will not really have much value, apart from being collectors items. I cannot be convinced that the Talossan population will spend thousands of dollars on these coins during the next few years, so this means a lot of them will not be sold. Of course, we don't need to sell 5 or even 1 thousand of them to get our investment back. A quote from the Minister of Finance: "On the coins, the theory is that we make 5,000 coins for about $890 (the exact figure is a little less; $890 is how I keep track in my head), at an average price then of $0.178/coin, at least $410 of the cash coming through Kickstarter or similar. With a face value of ℓ1/coin, we cover the maximum Treasury outlay at 320 of 5,000 sold, and the total manufacturing cost covered at 600 coins sold" Suppose we profit from this project or just get even, there would really not be any reason to oppose it. If we lose money on this project, however, I dont think it would be a good idea. After all, most citizens, including many of those who contributed to the treasury, by donation, political participation or otherwise will not buy these coins and will gain nothing from this expense. A loss of 50 dollar may be acceptable, considering the cultural enrichment these coins bring to Talossa, but what about 100, 200, 300? Personally, Id rather spent it on other things, hopefully someday including relieving the King and other benefactors from their expenses on websites and stuff like that.

The problem here is, we don't know yet how many citizens will buy these coins, and this makes voting on this act a rather difficult decision for me. I will of course ask for the advice of my Cézembrean constituents and I'm very interested in the opinion of my fellow senators on this matter.

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

Esteemed colleagues o' mine:

I believe the minting of these coins to be a fundamentally good idea. I share the Cézembrian Senator's concern that we may not make all our money back, but I don't think 320 coins sold is an unreachable goal. For my part, I do intend to purchase some of these coins, and would encourage all of my fellow citizens to do so as well.

I'd also point out that quite a bit of the money for the stamps came from extra-Talossan sources. I'd have to ask the MinFin for the exact figure. It would be nice if we could get the whole project finded via Kickstarter, as with the stamps, but the Minister has shown himself to be trustworthy in the past, and I see no reason to doubt that he'll spend only what he must spend to make this happen.

[Iason Bitxichë Taiwos]

Esteemed Mencei, fellow Senators, if I may be allowed to put in my two cents concerning the coins (no pun intended), I concur with Iustì regarding this issue, and believe that Talossan coins may have an even wider appeal to noncitizens than even the stamps have. A brief google search of the subjet led me to discover the existence of a numismatic society devoted to collectors of micronational coins (www.usns.info/links.html), as well as dealers of such coins, many of which are now fetching big prices. I think, in the long run, regardless of the expense, the minting of coins will be a good thing for the Kingdom, and i have total faith in Istefan to pull it off successfully.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

My fellow Senators-

I would like to ask the Seneschal to visit our Chamber, so that he may participate in this discussion. It's his Budget, so it would be best for him to answer any questions that we might have.

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

The Seneschal crosses the corridor from the Cosa chambers and enters the Senate chambers.

Azul Estimat Mençei,

Thank you for your invitation. I would be glad to take questions from the Senate.

...takes out his copy of the budget and waits for the senators.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Thank you for your services, Seneschal.

Let me be the first one to ask.

How did you reach the amount of $765 (USD) to be invested in the production of the coins?

How do you ( or the Minister of Finance) intend to sell these coins? By what methods or venues?

Where will the unsold / undistributed coins be stored?

Will there be a monthly accounting of the coins, the purchase orders. etc?

Is there a market for these coins? If so, whom?



Edit : ( Redundancy is my life )

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

May 1, 2013 18:10:20 GMT -6 Iason Bitxichë Taiwos said:

put in my two cents concerning the coins (no pun intended)

You lie!

[Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă]

May 1, 2013 21:08:41 GMT -6 Capt. Sir Mick Preston said:

Thank you for your services, Seneschal.

Let me be the first one to ask.

How did you reach the amount of $765 (USD) to be invested in the production of the coins?

Let me first state that the coin project was started well before the 45th Cosa. This is the cost of producing 5000 coins. The actual total cost is around $890. If the kickstarter doesn't work out (i.e. we don't make the expected minimum of $410, the project will be scrapped until a later date.

How do you ( or the Minister of Finance) intend to sell these coins? By what methods or venues?

There are a number of citizens who have expressed interest in these coins (myself included). Also, the Rt. Honorable Pertgonest has found numerous numismatic societies, including one that specifically collects coins from micro-nations. These are a few of the ideas, though I am sure that Minister Pertgonest has more.

Where will the unsold / undistributed coins be stored?

That's a good question and an answer I need to find out myself.

Will there be a monthly accounting of the coins, the purchase orders. etc?

Yes

Is there a market for these coins? If so, whom?

See my answer to question # 2.

I hope my answers were sufficient.

...the Seneschal sits down and waits for more questions...

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Does anyone else have a question for the Seneschal ?