The personal freedom act

[Glüc da Dhi]

Whereas personal freedom is a very important value, and

Whereas to preserve this value governments should not intervene too much in the personal life of citizens when its not really necessary, and

Whereas using marijuana is a victimless crime, and

Whereas using marijuana causes no harm to society, and

Whereas marijuana is relatively harmless compared to other drugs, such as alcohol and nicotine, and

Whereas Talossan should be free to use marijuana if they cause others no harm, and

Whereas the repressive policy of many countries, especially the United States and Mexico, against drugs has caused many problems, and

Whereas making marijuana illegal does not make it stop being used, and

Whereas legalising marijuana worldwide would be a massive blow to criminal drugs gangs, and

Whereas if marijuana is legal governments can control and even tax the use of marijuana, and

Whereas if legal drugs are available, black market drugs becomes less attractive, and

Whereas drugs from the black market may be unsafe, and

Whereas buying drugs from black market dealers stimulates the criminal sector, and

Whereas Talossa should give the right example to all the other countries banning marijuana, now

Therefore, it is hereby resolved by the ziu that it shall not be forbidden by Talossan law for Talossans to produce, buy, sell, or use marijuana or any other products containing Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) or any other substance originating from cannabis-plants, or to grow cannabis plants for the production of marijuana.

Noi urent q’estadra sa,

Glüc da Dhi (Senator, Cézembre)
Flip Molinar (MC, PPT)

[Flip Molinar]

I would love to cosponsor this act noting a few typos in the therefore clause.

[Glüc da Dhi]

Oops. I edited some mistakes, but if there are more, please point them out.

[Deleted]

I have no problem with marijuana. I would be OK with legalization.

My issue is that, as the U.S. lays claim to Talossan territory and, as such, imposes US rule in those area, it may be seen as a less than neighborly gesture if we legislate in direct defiance of their laws (going as far as calling their laws "repressive").

Further, as we hold that an individual subject to US Law is still, well, subject to US Law. I fear this would send a mixed message at best, and at worst encourage those of us with dual citizenship to do something that can get them in trouble with U.S. Authorities.

I like the spirit. But the bill won't accomplish anything positive and could create a negative PR situation for the Kingdom.

[Glüc da Dhi]

Dec 21, 2011 7:35:50 GMT -6 Adm. T.M. Asmourescu, O. Ben. said:

My issue is that, as the U.S. lays claim to Talossan territory and, as such, imposes US rule in those area, it may be seen as a less than neighborly gesture if we legislate in direct defiance of their laws

I think Talossa should be free to make its own laws. All of us are citizens of Talossa, but a lot of us are not citizens of Wisconsin, or the US. Why should Wisconsin decide on the use of drugs of non US-citizens? If Talossa decides to follow the example of Wisconsin, like we are doing today, thats fine, but we think their example is wrong, we should be afraid to say so. For example, Im not sure about the current US laws about Abortion, but I know its a controversial subject, so they might make it illegal ( if it isnt already, I really dont know). The orglaw however states this right should not be abridged. Should we change this when Wisconsin disagrees with us. No, we shouldnt.

(going as far as calling their laws "repressive").

Thats just the whereas part. It shows part of the motivation of the sponsors of the bill. I can remove it if you like, but I will keep thinking it is repressive policy and I dont think we should not say stuff because Wisconsin disagrees.

Further, as we hold that an individual subject to US Law is still, well, subject to US Law. I fear this would send a mixed message at best, and at worst encourage those of us with dual citizenship to do something that can get them in trouble with U.S. Authorities.

If a homosexual in Iran becomes a Talossan citizen and our humanist liberal policy of equal rights for people with different sexualities encourages him to stand up for his rights, he will most certainly get into a lot of trouble. I added 'by Talossan law' to make clear that citizens are still bound by the laws of their other country. I only think it shouldnt be Talossa banning drugs.

I like the spirit. But the bill won't accomplish anything positive and could create a negative PR situation for the Kingdom.

I dont think it will create any PR situation at all, but if we would send a signal to the US or other countries with Talossan citizens that we think marijuana should be legal, I dont think that is a bad thing.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Just a little background information...

Please note:


www.kingdomoftalossa.net/index.cgi?lingo=&page=Statute&act=35RZ21


The following chapters of the Wisconsin Statutes constitute the "Civil and Criminal Codes of the State of Wisconsin" for the purposes of the Talossan Civil and Criminal Codes Act, 31RZ14, and subject to the restrictions contained in that act:

Chapters 240-243 Fraudulent Conveyances and Contracts
Chapters 401-411 Uniform Commercial Code
Chapters 421-429 Wisconsin Consumer Act
Chapters 700-710 Property
Chapters 938-951 Criminal Code
Chapter 961 Controlled Substances

The above chapters shall be dynamically incorporated into Talossan law, so that future amendments thereto by the State of Wisconsin shall also constitute Talossan law, to the extent that they are not inconsistent with the Organic Law or with acts of the Ziu adopted pursuant to clause 2 of 31RZ14.


( Emphasis mine )

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

And , now on to 31RZ14:


31RZ14 - The Talossan Civil and Criminal Codes Act

WHEREAS under Talossan law, there are no actual, legal prohibitions against murder, rape, robbery, or any other crimes, and

WHEREAS the Kingdom of Talossa is a civilized nation subject to the rule of law (Organic Law, Article XVIII, 8th Covenant),

THEREFORE the Ziu hereby adopts the Civil and Criminal Codes of the State of Wisconsin as national law within the territory of the Kingdom of Talossa, subject to the following restrictions:

Talossan national law is superior to adopted foreign law. Therefore, the Civil and Criminal Codes of Wisconsin shall be law in Talossa only insofar as they are consistent with the Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa. The Uppermost Cort shall have the final say upon any real or perceived inconsistencies.

Acts of the Ziu establish Talossan national law; therefore, any Law of the Ziu purporting to repeal or change Wisconsin civil or criminal codes, for the purposes of their specific application within the Kingdom of Talossa, shall take precedence over said codes.

[Glüc da Dhi]

I believe that because of 31RZ14 talossan law takes precedence over adopted foreign law.
Wiscosin law is only valid when it doesnt contradict Talossan law, and I believe that was the intent of 35RZ21, to create rules on those matters we dont have laws for ourselves. We are free to contradict those chapters when we disagree with them.

[Iason Bitxichë Taiwos]

As a cybercit living outside of Talossan territory, am I right in assuming that I am bound to observe the civil and criminal codes of the state of Ohio? If Marijuana was somehow legalized in Ohio (yeah, right) and I decided to light up a fat spliff, would I be violating Talossan law (as marijuana is illegal in Wisconsin.)? Is there a law I missed requiring cybercits to observe and obey their local state laws? And what if those laws differ from Wisconsin? (Just curious, and pardon me for the intrusion.)

[Glüc da Dhi]

Dec 21, 2011 11:34:18 GMT -6 Iason Bitxichë Taiwos said:

As a cybercit living outside of Talossan territory, am I right in assuming that I am bound to observe the civil and criminal codes of the state of Ohio? If Marijuana was somehow legalized in Ohio (yeah, right) and I decided to light up a fat spliff, would I be violating Talossan law (as marijuana is illegal in Wisconsin.)?

I believe so

Is there a law I missed requiring cybercits to observe and obey their local state laws? And what if those laws differ from Wisconsin? (Just curious, and pardon me for the intrusion.)

I believe there is no Talossan law requiring you to obey the laws of your state or country, because thats something between you and your state, I think.

[Iason Bitxichë Taiwos]

So I might be doing something totally legal by the laws of my state of residence, but would be violating Talossan law? I'm wondering if we should make an additional law saying that Talossans who are not residents of Talossan territory (I.e., Wisconsin) are required to observe the criminal and civil codes of whatever US state they reside in (or is this pretty much unecessary?)
While I support the legalization of marijuana, I too foresee potential PR problems...

[Martì Prevuost]

Now this raises an interesting point.

Does Talossan criminal law apply to Talossans only when they are in Talossa?
Does a US Citizen violate US law if, while traveling to Amsterdam, s/he engages in activity which is in violation of US law - while in the US - but is not a violation of the laws of Amsterdam? Only technically but not legally in my opinion.

The law of the US has been violated, but the individual is neither in the US nor under the jurisdiction of the US at the time of the activity in question and, ergo, is not legally bound to obey the law of the US at that time.

So wouldn't the same apply to this issue? While in Talossan territory, Talossans (and everyone else for that matter) are subject to Talossan Organic and Statutory Law (both civil and criminal).

Aren't Talossans who lives outside of the physical boundries of Talossa (expatriates) subject to the local laws of their physical location? One can't claim exemption from local law simply by virtue of being a Talossan. I couldn't say to the local police "Now see here, I am not bound to travel 35 MPH through your town since Talossa doesn't have a speed limit."

MAG

[Iason Bitxichë Taiwos]

Thank you, MAG, for more eloquently expressing what I was trying to say. The PR problem I foresee involves visions of people being arrested for lighting up joints or firing up bongs in public, then declaring they are Talossans and free to do so. (I can see the evening news..."Drug bust nabs local members of 'micro-nation'"...)
There are probably a lot of marijuana legalization activists who would be willing to use Talossa like that. "I am a Talossan and not subject to your repressive laws!"

[Glüc da Dhi]

So does that mean we are free to be involved with micronations, since wouldnt be commiting the crime in Talossa?

(btw, Obviously this law doesnt allow citizens to break the law of their other countries, just like the abortion article in the orglaw doesnt allow citizens to abort their children in countries where this is not allowed. As long as thats clear I dont see any problems. Talossans are silly, not stupid.)

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Dec 21, 2011 13:46:36 GMT -6 Glüc da Dhi said:

So does that mean we are free to be involved with micronations, since wouldnt be commiting the crime in Talossa?

(btw, Obviously this law doesnt allow citizens to break the law of their other countries, just like the abortion article in the orglaw doesnt allow citizens to abort their children in countries where this is not allowed. As long as thats clear I dont see any problems. Talossans are silly, not stupid.)

www.kingdomoftalossa.net/index.cgi?lingo=&page=Statute&act=25RZ50