Lecture 5 - May 4th

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

The lecture for today can be found here. Please answer the question within here. I would like full participation this time, since we have such a low bar this class. Thank you

[King John]

Maybe something along the lines of "TENEMOS EL CURA QUÉ DEBEMOS HACER CON ÉL".

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

Hehe. How far are you along in Old Man and the Sea, if you don't mind me asking?

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

May 6, 2008 10:01:06 GMT -6 King John said:

Maybe something along the lines of "TENEMOS EL CURA QUÉ DEBEMOS HACER CON ÉL".

Or maybe preste, sacerdote, or padre instead of cura.

I'm a bit more than halfway through the book, at the point where Santiago finally gets some sleep on the boat. At first I misread the lecture question, and was trying to think of where the answer could be found in the book.

Santiago shows good taste in preferring the Dodgers over the Phillies, even though the Dodgers were not yet in Los Angeles. I wondered briefly why he did not mention the mighty Brewers of Maricopa, but then I remembered that the Brewers did not exist at that time (not to mention Maricopa Province). Actually, the Brewers did exist, but only as a minor league team, not in Santiago's beloved Gran Ligas.

[King John]

I finished the book, which isn't long at all and kind of drew me in. I think I'll read it again this week. One interesting thing I noticed, both in this novella and in "The Undefeated", is how often a bit of dialogue (or "internal dialogue") seems to have been translated from Spanish. That is, I keep "hearing", somehow, the underlying Spanish rhythms of the characters' speech and thoughts, even when there aren't any overtly Spanish constructions or words used in the English. I'm not sure how Hemingway is doing this; it strikes me as pretty skillful.

— John R

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

May 6, 2008 14:42:11 GMT -6 Sir C. M. Siervicül said:

May 6, 2008 10:01:06 GMT -6 King John said:

Maybe something along the lines of "TENEMOS EL CURA QUÉ DEBEMOS HACER CON ÉL".

Or maybe preste, sacerdote, or padre instead of cura.

I'm a bit more than halfway through the book, at the point where Santiago finally gets some sleep on the boat. At first I misread the lecture question, and was trying to think of where the answer could be found in the book.

Santiago shows good taste in preferring the Dodgers over the Phillies, even though the Dodgers were not yet in Los Angeles. I wondered briefly why he did not mention the mighty Brewers of Maricopa, but then I remembered that the Brewers did not exist at that time (not to mention Maricopa Province). Actually, the Brewers did exist, but only as a minor league team, not in Santiago's beloved Gran Ligas.

One of the interesting things is how the world of baseball is treated as legendary within the book, rather than a more visceral and real sport. Depicted through the medium of newspapers and rumour, never physical spectating, and recounted with such terms as "faith," it is almost mythical to them.

May 6, 2008 14:46:11 GMT -6 King John said:

I finished the book, which isn't long at all and kind of drew me in. I think I'll read it again this week. One interesting thing I noticed, both in this novella and in "The Undefeated", is how often a bit of dialogue (or "internal dialogue") seems to have been translated from Spanish. That is, I keep "hearing", somehow, the underlying Spanish rhythms of the characters' speech and thoughts, even when there aren't any overtly Spanish constructions or words used in the English. I'm not sure how Hemingway is doing this; it strikes me as pretty skillful.

— John R

Hemingway was intimately familiar with the language and its nature. He does this most notably in For Whom the Bell Tolls; if it appeals to you, I cannot recommend that book enough. Not knowing Spanish, it is hard for me to comment, but I would speculate that it involves the deliberate adoption of a choice of sentence structure that mimics the language rather than the more colloquial English structure.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

May 6, 2008 15:38:02 GMT -6 Sir Alexandreu Davinescu said:

One of the interesting things is how the world of baseball is treated as legendary within the book, rather than a more visceral and real sport. Depicted through the medium of newspapers and rumour, never physical spectating, and recounted with such terms as "faith," it is almost mythical to them.

I noticed that too, like in how he can only imagine what it would be like to listen to baseball on the radio while out on the boat. I was glad that he didn't actually have a radio, because it would spoil the effect.

May 6, 2008 14:46:11 GMT -6 King John said:

Hemingway was intimately familiar with the language and its nature. He does this most notably in For Whom the Bell Tolls; if it appeals to you, I cannot recommend that book enough. Not knowing Spanish, it is hard for me to comment, but I would speculate that it involves the deliberate adoption of a choice of sentence structure that mimics the language rather than the more colloquial English structure.

One of the ways he does that is by using Spanish-style possessive constructions, like "the Indians of Cleveland" and "the Tigers of Detroit." Not much farther in the text, "two dollars and a half" (as opposed to the more typically English "two and a half dollars") struck me as feeling Spanish.

[Sir X. Pol Briga]

Picking another language

WIR HABEN DEN PRIESTER. WAS SOLLTEN WIR MIT IHM TUN?

I first listened to the unabridged book on CD as read by Donald Sutherland during my commute, and now I am reading the book. I also grabbed "The Sun Also Rises" on CD as read by William Hurt, but unfortunately the library copy had a problem on the 3rd disk of 7.

(Edit - I forgot to add this previously) There are telegrams as part of various points in the story of "The Sun Also Rises" - kind of the email/mobile phone like service of the day.)

[Aspra Roseta Laira]

Sorry to be redundant, but “WE HAVE THE PRIEST. WHAT SHOULD WE DO WITH HIM?” was the accidental telegram. The Republicans sought to denounce both the landowners and the Catholic Clergy, but this telegram shows that they were not organized.

I'm only about 1/2 finished with The Old Man and the Sea -- but so far, it is my favorite of the readings. The only reason I'm not finished is simply due to my very busy week. I give my final in my class tomorrow, then grading, then I'll be free!

[Aspra Roseta Laira]

I knew very little about the Spanish Civil War before reading your lecture. Thank you for taking the time to educate me more about it.

[Róibeard Laira]

To answer the homework question, the accidental telegram said, "We have the priest. What should we do with him?"

I find it really sad to think that the various idealogues supplying weapons to the different factions actually thought that winning the war would prove anything about what's the best way to organize human affairs.

[Nic Casálmac'h]

I did read the lecture yesterday, but then didn't have time to say anything; Tuesday's are hard for me because of work. Anyway, this doesn't really prove that I read it, but: "We have the priest. What should we do with him?"

I didn't quite understand the details concerning said telegram. Was it the priests who sent it? Could you explain that a little more?

I also noticed the interesting structure of the book that reminded me of Spanish. The biggest thing I noticed was when the boy says "the father" (I forget the rest of what he said exactly), which is something we would never say in English.

I find the juxtaposition between Santiago's way of life as a fisherman and his interest in baseball rather interesting. It seems very strange to think of someone continuing to live as a fisherman in a way that seems so far in the past, but taking a great interest in something that is so well-known today, and yet the two seem to fit naturally together.

Oh, and I'm a little over halfway through.