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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 31, 2008 23:52:14 GMT -6
This week's lecture is located here. It is saved in Word 97-2004 compatible format; if anyone cannot read it or has any difficulty, let me know and I will figure out a format that works for everyone. Please take particular care in this lecture to read the introductory material, including the two rules with which it is handy for a new Hemingway student to approach his work. Discussions today will probably be limited, since we are at the start of the class and you have nothing yet to discuss. But I would like to welcome you all, and I welcome any questions you have, either vague or specific, about Hemingway. And of course, if you have any questions about the class itself, those are also very welcome.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 1, 2008 20:24:51 GMT -6
It would indeed be nice if one of the members of the class said something at some point today. This is not a promising start... almost 24 hours after I post the first lecture, silence reigns.
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Post by Róibeard Laira on Apr 1, 2008 21:32:49 GMT -6
I've read the first lecture and Aspra and I have gotten the complete short stories. So we're ready for the class. Your overview of Hemmingway's life was a good introduction and I can't wait to learn more, but I don't have any specific questions right now
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Post by Aspra Roseta Laira on Apr 1, 2008 22:02:28 GMT -6
I have a few questions. First, when will you expect participation (what time of day)? I was hoping to be able to participate after 9 p.m. MST (when the broad-leaf dandelions are asleep).
I'm looking forward to being in this course. I really enjoyed the bio you provided. I knew very little about Hemingway before reading it, only had a vague sense of his adventurous life and suicide. Do you know what his father did for a living? How old was he when his father committed suicide? Did any of his children become writers? Did his children commit suicide?
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Post by Nic Casálmac'h on Apr 1, 2008 22:57:15 GMT -6
I also knew very little about Hemingway before reading the lecture and I now feel like I have a fairly good understanding of what he was like. I look forward to reading his works. I have the necessary materials and will commence reading the assigned stories.
I particularly like the quote with which you began the lecture. That is exactly what I think fiction should do, though I should likely have said it rather differently. Oftentimes people have a very limited idea about truth, meaning something that applies only to what are better called facts. Because of this they often believe children should not read fairy tales because they are not "true", but in many ways these are more true than an account of what happened in what year, for instance. That is the wonderful thing about fiction: you are not constrained by the "facts". I look forward to seeing how Hemingway's idea of this compares with my own.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 2, 2008 1:11:32 GMT -6
I've read the first lecture and Aspra and I have gotten the complete short stories. So we're ready for the class. Your overview of Hemmingway's life was a good introduction and I can't wait to learn more, but I don't have any specific questions right now Thank you for obliging me... I confess to being a bit anxious for success here, so maybe I jumped the gun. I have a few questions. First, when will you expect participation (what time of day)? I was hoping to be able to participate after 9 p.m. MST (when the broad-leaf dandelions are asleep). I'm looking forward to being in this course. I really enjoyed the bio you provided. I knew very little about Hemingway before reading it, only had a vague sense of his adventurous life and suicide. Do you know what his father did for a living? How old was he when his father committed suicide? Did any of his children become writers? Did his children commit suicide? Yes, you can participate then. That is not a problem. Hemingway's father was a doctor. He practiced out of his house and Ernest's childhood home in Oak Park, Illinois. During summers, the entire Hemingway clan would go north to Michigan, and Ernest's father would tend to the Native American Ojibway tribe there. Great question about Ernest's age when his father died; he was 29. It affected him very deeply. None of Hemingway's children became writers, although they did all pen memoirs of poor quality. He had three sons. The first, Jack (known forever by his childhood nickname of "Bumby") fathered a trio of daughters, two of whom became film stars of dim celebrity (Mariel and Margaux Hemingway). The second, Patrick, lived a relatively quiet life. However, the third son, Gregory, was a doctor and fathered numerous children before a sex reassignment surgery, and one of whom was Lorian Hemingway. She has been nominated for a Pulitzer for her work, although the only book of hers I have read was not to my taste. None of his children committed suicide per se, although alcoholism and substance abuse have been rampant. I also knew very little about Hemingway before reading the lecture and I now feel like I have a fairly good understanding of what he was like. I look forward to reading his works. I have the necessary materials and will commence reading the assigned stories. I particularly like the quote with which you began the lecture. That is exactly what I think fiction should do, though I should likely have said it rather differently. Oftentimes people have a very limited idea about truth, meaning something that applies only to what are better called facts. Because of this they often believe children should not read fairy tales because they are not "true", but in many ways these are more true than an account of what happened in what year, for instance. That is the wonderful thing about fiction: you are not constrained by the "facts". I look forward to seeing how Hemingway's idea of this compares with my own. Hemingway often said such things as that. With a keen eye for his own future legend, he would make sure to put forward witticisms and profound statements about writing whenever anyone who could talk about it afterwards happened to be around. Indeed, in his later years he cultivated a "world-weary adventurer-writer" mystique built around such sayings. He did leave much that was of worth, however. The chaff of his false legacy can be cleaned away from that which was intense and profound. For example, he said that when he began to write a story and was having a hard time, he would begin with a single true sentence - "the truest sentence I know" - and then the rest would just follow.
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Post by Çelís del Þeracour on Apr 2, 2008 5:00:10 GMT -6
Prof. Davis, I'm sorry that I was not able to be online for the first lecture last night but I did read the lecture. The only work of Hemmingway that I ever read was in college (more than) a few years ago. I am very eager to re-explore his works as an adult.
One question I have, with two suicides in the same family I know that many mental health conditions were not known or discussed prior to our current generation. Is there speculation - or proof - that both Ernest Hemmingway and his father suffered from depression or bi-polar disorder?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Apr 2, 2008 8:03:07 GMT -6
None of his children committed suicide per se, although alcoholism and substance abuse have been rampant. And one of his grandchildren (Margaux) committed suicide. Your introduction to the course was fascinating. I'm certainly looking forward to next week's discussion. Somehow I never read much of Hemingway in college or afterward, and this course is my chance to make up for lost time.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 2, 2008 11:59:31 GMT -6
Prof. Davis, I'm sorry that I was not able to be online for the first lecture last night but I did read the lecture. The only work of Hemmingway that I ever read was in college (more than) a few years ago. I am very eager to re-explore his works as an adult. One question I have, with two suicides in the same family I know that many mental health conditions were not known or discussed prior to our current generation. Is there speculation - or proof - that both Ernest Hemmingway and his father suffered from depression or bi-polar disorder? It is widely assumed that Ernest, at least, suffered from severe depressive episodes. The evidence from his contemporaries on the matter is strong. His father is a matter of more speculation... at the time of his suicide, he had been suffering severe financial reversals with failed investments in Florida. It does seem likely that he would be diagnosed depressive as well, however. None of his children committed suicide per se, although alcoholism and substance abuse have been rampant. And one of his grandchildren (Margaux) committed suicide. Your introduction to the course was fascinating. I'm certainly looking forward to next week's discussion. Somehow I never read much of Hemingway in college or afterward, and this course is my chance to make up for lost time. It is my understanding that Margaux's suicide is disputed. But it would not surprise me if she had done so. She was an unhappy woman.
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Post by Aspra Roseta Laira on Apr 2, 2008 18:34:28 GMT -6
You mentioned that he was acquainted with Ezra Pound (and others). Did Hemingway also write poetry or did he stick with short stories and journalism?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 2, 2008 20:51:38 GMT -6
Hemingway wrote some poetry, yes. His first book was actually called Three Stories and Ten Poems. The poetry is mediocre in general. Critical consensus has never held it in very high regard, and he wrote far more as a journalist than anything else by length; this is largely because he was merciless with his fiction stories and novels, cutting out thousands of words, but had an unfortunate tendency to phone in his reporting.
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King John
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Post by King John on Apr 3, 2008 10:25:40 GMT -6
I was really disappointed with this first lecture. It's so good, it's going to make my hit-and-miss treatment of hardboiled crime fiction (in an upcoming class) look incompetent.
I'm never sure about this "avoid overt artistry" thing. It's true that great artists rarely slap you across the face with symbolism, but it's also true — isn't it? — that the symbolism is usually there, and shows every sign (when you start working at it) of having been deliberately, carefully, subtly built into a story or painting or poem. (Often, indeed, the story seems to have been built as a framework for the inner symbols.)
Could Hemingway's "This isn't art, it's just life written down" be another of those deliberate falsifications? Could he have been working just as hard as anyone else to construct subtle referential and symbolic patterns, but simply *posing* as somehow radically different from other "normal" writers?
— John R
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 3, 2008 12:15:13 GMT -6
Hemingway did sometimes construct deliberate patterns, as we will see. In fact, when he did so it was usually blatant and not very well-done. There are some oft-noted examples of this in Old Man and the Sea, which we will be reading later in this class. This leads myself and most critics to believe that the many other extraordinary subtleties which can be found in his writing actually are a product of what he called the "iceberg" approach, wherein thoughts and feelings of the writer are unconsciously reflected by his writing.
It should also be noted that every single one of the deliberate sophistries reflects well on Hemingway (being either pious or masculine), whereas the hidden meanings of his actual thoughts are much more sophisticated and vulnerable. I will point out a good example of this in "Hills Like White Elephants" when we cover it.
In short, it's possible, but it seems unlikely.
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Sir X. Pol Briga
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Post by Sir X. Pol Briga on Apr 3, 2008 22:24:41 GMT -6
Just a quick note to let you know that I am going to read the lecture tonight and comment tomorrow - sorry about being tardy. I have a book from the library and am waiting for one to come in from bookins.com which I traded for, along with one about Michael Palin on travels based upon Hemingway's works (this interests me since I have done at least a bit of Spain and would like to go back).
XPB
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Post by Nic Casálmac'h on Apr 3, 2008 22:40:35 GMT -6
I was just wondering, is there any particular reason you chose those two stories as the first ones for us to read?
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