Clarification on acceptable charges.

[Joel Wood]

I have been doing some research on devices and charges and have come upon a sticking point. Initially, I am interested in having a sable or gules lion rampant as the "focal point" (please forgive me if I use some improper lingo) for a proposed device but am acutely aware of the lion rampant's relation to the English monarchy. I checked the Talossan list of unacceptable charges and did not find this charge on there. I did however find other charges that were closely related to various monarchies and wanted to make sure that I do not spend too much time thinking about a charge that might be off limits.

By way of explanation, the lion has been a symbol I have identified with since I was very young. I was telling S:reu John earlier that while I ascribe no belief in or faith towards astrology, I was born in the month of the lion and Leo can be derived by spelling my first name backwards. (There was a time when "Joel" was tough ;D .) This childhood association has stuck with me and here I am now...

I would appreciate any attention anyone in the College of Arms can offer me on this matter. As the design (with lion or without) develops, I could also use some coaching and or mentoring on the subject.

Respectfully,

Joel

[Hooligan]

Joel --

You, like all of your fellow subjects of the King, are invited to apply to the College of Arms for assistance in creating a coat of arms and petitioning the Sovereign for a grant thereof.

As a Fellow of the College of Arms, I am proud to have helped a couple of the Kingdom's armigers to obtain their arms. I am presently working on two projects for the College.

You should write to the Dean of the College -- Trotxâ Bettinger -- and request that he assign a Herald, Pursuivant, or Fellow of the College to your case, and then you'll be on your way!

It sounds like you have a good head start. And no worries -- lions are perfectly kosher on Talossan arms.

Hooligan
The Oblivious Auditing Fellow (OAF) of the College of Arms

[Trotxâ]

Joel --

Lord Hooligan is correct. Talossa has no specific reservations about lions. However, if you were to choose "Gules three lions passant guardant Or", the College of Arms would respectfully ask you to prove that you are in the line of direct descent from Henry Plantagenet.

As we have said before, the staff of the College of Arms stand ready to help citizens of the Kingdom create a memorable and distinctive coat of arms. Now is the time to start.

-- Jaune Sabre, Dean

[Joel Wood]

Thank you both very much. I am doing some preliminary research now and as soon as I can get a reprieve from school I will apply formally for some assistance.

I can say that I will politely pass on the "Gules three lions passant guardant Or," one lion is plenty for me and I am quite sure that my tree grew nowhere near the Plantagenet's- and certainly not as high.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

I thought "argent, a lion rampant gules" was the personal arms of King Peter of Narnia. Seriously, the lion rampant (gules on or) represents Scotland in the royal arms of Great Britain.

[King John]

The King of Scotland (or Queen, as now) bears: Or, a lion rampant within a double tressure flory counter-flory gules. (This tressure is unique to Scotland.) So you could drop the tressure and add something else, and you'd be sufficiently different from Scotland; and you could still have the lion as the "focal point" or central element.

— Blanc Wolf

[Ups Antônio Martüc]

So let me get this straight as i've never in my life discussed nor knew anything on the topic of coat of arms, though I did apply for one a few minutes ago

As I have no bloodline to anyone here in Talossa and because i'm not granted knighthood, I am eligible for the gentry (peerage?) coat of arms as a citizen? Well, if I got that right then i'm very much interested in my own so that I will feel good about myself heh... I think that would be great if I have one of my own. So I suspect members of the coat of arms pretty much have expertise in making graphics on the computer and are knowledgable on the topic so they help people with their own? Ok thanks

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

If you're smart enough to become a Talossan citizen, you're a member of the Talossan gentry. Therefore you're eligible to request a grant of arms from the King. I suppose our "commoners" are the Cestoûrs - people who actually reside on Talossan territory but have not yet applied for citizenship.

The College of Arms would be happy to help you come up with a design that suits you, and will generate the graphic depiction of the arms (called an "emblazon") for you.

[Ups Antônio Martüc]

I messaged the Dean about it. I'm pretty sure i'd accept pretty much anything they can come up with. Sounds good. Let's get started! I hope I can move to Talossa one day...

[Trotxâ]

gunshyslycat1 said:

As I have no bloodline to anyone here in Talossa and because i'm not granted knighthood, I am eligible for the gentry (peerage?) coat of arms as a citizen?

I'll second S:reu Siervicül's definition of Cestoûrs as the common folk of the Kingdom. Think of them as the sturdy yeomanry of Talossa - not bound to the soil like serfs, unable to come and go without the permission of their Barôn. The Cestoûrs are free men and women who do the work of the realm but have not yet been recognized as being of gentle birth. The Cestoûrs have neither voice nor vote. However, we should not malign or abuse them, but instead we should give them a chance of elevation to the gentry on request.

We do have nobility in Talossa: Barons, Counts and Dukes. Knights and Dames are not nobility, but are citizens who have been given special honours by His Majesty.

gunshyslycat1 said:

So I suspect members of the coat of arms pretty much have expertise in making graphics on the computer and are knowledgable on the topic so they help people with their own?

Do you mean to say "The College of Arms"? The College of Arms has much more to do than merely create computer graphics. The members of the College concentrate on art and science of heraldry. Graphics are useful, but an image is the end, not the beginning, of a coat of arms.

If you are interested in obtaining a coat of arms, I encourage you to review the College of Arms web pages, specifically the pages about the Rules of Heraldry, how to Obtain a Coat of Arms, and the Getting Started with Arms pages.

Let me just mention that I have it on good authority that the Dean hates instant and other forms of messaging. He's a conservative, old-school, monarchist type who prefers e-mail, preferably crafted with high grade electrons.

Trotxâ

[Ups Antônio Martüc]

I sent you an email on this matter, Trotxâ. I'm thinking about something with the national flag and provincial flag. Also the national animal (squirrel) would look nice in there... I apologize for my lack of knowledge in this area of expertise, my main interests in history has always been of the roman times.

I'm going to show you all different drawings I came up with...It goes in order from the ones I want most to the ones I want least and I hope one is acceptable.

copy and paste the whole link into your browser

Or, a chief gules

www.puncher.co.uk/draw_herald.php?E=1_1E:F1,4,6,0,0,0,_:Cf1,3,:

Per bend argent and vert

www.puncher.co.uk/draw_herald.php?E=1_1E:F1,1,9,0,1,0,_:

Quarterly (per cross) gules and sable, a bordure azure, a chief of the second

www.puncher.co.uk/draw_herald.php?E=1_1E:F1,3,6,0,7,0,_:B1,2,:Cf1,11,:

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

We certainly aren't going to have a problem talking you out of an excessively complex design. You're a quick study.

A thought off the top of my head - I think your first design (or a chief gules) would look pretty cool with a pheon (spear head) gules on it. Or a group of three pheons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheon

Your surname is related to Mars, the Roman god of war, and one of his traditional symbols is the spear. Plus Mars is the "red planet."

[Ups Antônio Martüc]

I like that. Basically I want to get one before the deadline.. or a chief gules with a pheon on there...or a group of pheons..whichever works is good. How can we connect my design with the pheon(s)?

[Trotxâ]

You might try e-mailing your herald, or that cranky old guy the Dean!

Trotxâ

[Ups Antônio Martüc]

I emailed C.M. Siervicül on this matter and all I have to do is attach that image of the Pheons to my design with some color and i'll be done and ready for the deadline.....hopefully i'm ready. I just wanted to get one real quick, it's not something i'm gonna think allday long about, I know some do just that like Joel Wood.