Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 4, 2019 15:49:39 GMT -6
WHEREAS Talossa is not Wittenberg, and
WHEREAS We all know that, but all too often, prospective citizens don't really understand it, and
WHEREAS That might be because the only thing that a prospective citizen ever sees is Wittenberg, and
WHEREAS It might be a good idea to change that
THEREFORE Lex.E.4, which currently reads:
shall be amended to read:
Ureu q'estadra så: Ian Plätschisch (Sen-MM)
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 4, 2019 15:49:55 GMT -6
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 4, 2019 18:41:26 GMT -6
This seems like a serious weakening of the immigration process. I understand the thought behind it (ie. Talossa is more than Witt), but citizenship can be granted following a single conversation? It doesn't even need to be a full conversation, a couple of PMs/IMs/DMs would satisfy "corresponded with the prospective citizen at least once".
I am of the opinion that citizenship should not be difficult to obtain, but the applicant should still satisfy to the nation that they have a real desire to obtain citizenship.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 4, 2019 18:46:51 GMT -6
This seems like a serious weakening of the immigration process. I understand the thought behind it (ie. Talossa is more than Witt), but citizenship can be granted following a single conversation? It doesn't even need to be a full conversation, a couple of PMs/IMs/DMs would satisfy "corresponded with the prospective citizen at least once". I am of the opinion that citizenship should not be difficult to obtain, but the applicant should still satisfy to the nation that they have a real desire to obtain citizenship. I'm not sure what you mean by this. This bill only adds a requirement to the immigration process and does not take any away.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 4, 2019 19:02:01 GMT -6
Under your bill a prospective citizen can have a single communication with a single citizen for a petition to be made. They need never engage with the community to obtain full citizenship. I mean, we have the examination period for a reason.
Of course, I am working on the assumption that the current SoS doesn't just blindly grant every petition that crosses his desk. I would like to think that a prospective citizen who only ever made a single forum post in the examination period would have the petition rejected.
(Even though the point of the examination period is for the prospective to "prove their worth", I'm seeing now that the law doesn't actually set a benchmark. I do remember a time when a former SoS did reject petitions because the prospective failed to post enough though.)
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 4, 2019 19:10:29 GMT -6
Ah, hold up. I thought this was an "or" type clause. As in they can do Witt or have a single non-Witt communication. I'm seeing that it's actually an "and" type clause. As in they must do Witt and have a single non-witt communication.
I don't think I like that either. What if a prospective citizen shows up and is like the new-MPF on Witt, but refuses to converse off-Witt? I for one like to keep all my Talossa stuff on Witt. Everyone can testify to my lack of presence in your friends lists on whatever platforms you use. I don't use Facebook or Twitter or whatever else is out there. I only really have email and I don't really like it when Talossan stuff shows up in there. Does this make me less Talossan?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 4, 2019 19:14:33 GMT -6
I don't think I like that either. What if a prospective citizen shows up and is like the new-MPF on Witt, but refuses to converse off-Witt? I for one like to keep all my Talossa stuff on Witt. Everyone can testify to my lack of presence in your friends lists on whatever platforms you use. I don't use Facebook or Twitter or whatever else is out there. I have only really have email and I don't really like it when Talossan stuff shows up in there. Does this make me less Talossan? No, it obviously doesn't make you less Talossan, but I think it would be helpful for new immigrants to be made aware that there are other Talossan communities elsewhere, and the best way to learn is by doing. I mean, to meet this extremely low requirement, a prospective would need only to log into the Chatzy a few times at most, and even you have done that. The main point of this bill is just to get it into the minds of prospective citizens (and in truth, our own minds) that Wittenberg is not Talossa.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 4, 2019 19:21:15 GMT -6
I don't think I like that either. What if a prospective citizen shows up and is like the new-MPF on Witt, but refuses to converse off-Witt? I for one like to keep all my Talossa stuff on Witt. Everyone can testify to my lack of presence in your friends lists on whatever platforms you use. I don't use Facebook or Twitter or whatever else is out there. I have only really have email and I don't really like it when Talossan stuff shows up in there. Does this make me less Talossan? No, it obviously doesn't make you less Talossan, but I think it would be helpful for new immigrants to be made aware that there are other Talossan communities elsewhere, and the best way to learn is by doing. I mean, to meet this extremely low requirement, a prospective would need only to log into the Chatzy a few times at most, and even you have done that. The main point of this bill is just to get it into the minds of prospective citizens (and in truth, our own minds) that Wittenberg is not Talossa. Yeah, ok. I can see the benefits to it.
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on May 5, 2019 8:21:24 GMT -6
Would discord count then? The unofficial discord is a great place, should be made official imo as well.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 5, 2019 10:03:48 GMT -6
Would discord count then? The unofficial discord is a great place, should be made official imo as well. Yeah, the discord would count. Anything that isn’t Wittenberg would.
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on May 5, 2019 10:05:53 GMT -6
OK thanks. But they need witt and an extra means of communication right? And I remember I got emailed before I got an account on witt and I replied to the email. Does that count?
EDIT: My terrible spelling
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 5, 2019 10:18:21 GMT -6
OK thanks. But they need witt and an extra means of communication right? And I remeþber I got emailed before I got an account in witt and I replied to the email. Does that count? Thanks for bringing this up. I guess I should clarify that emails from the Interior Ministry don't count.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jun 24, 2019 20:18:26 GMT -6
Not to Ham Sandwich this thing, but I definitely foresee me Clarking a modified version of this bill again in the near future. Many legislators voiced their support for the general concept but had qualms with the specifics; what improvements do MZs have in mind?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jun 30, 2019 18:56:47 GMT -6
Is anyone interested in offering any feedback on this? I know that there must be some, given that it didn't pass and all that.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jun 30, 2019 19:03:06 GMT -6
Well, I abstained because it seems to be tinkering for tinkering's sake and I didn't see how it would help OR hurt anything.
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