Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 1:32:43 GMT -6
I'm not a huge fan of real-time communication, since I'm in a very different time zone to most of you.
Anyway, I have two courses of action that I think are both great:
1) as Iác suggests, revert to pre-2007 spelling but retain post-2007 pronunciation (for example, the letter û in o pût (he can) being pronounced as a schwa always annoyed me); 2) return to the "Orthographic Reunision" compromise which we got 90% of the way on, only getting stuck on what to do with î.
My only question as to which of these options to choose is how many Talossan-language enthusiasts will commit to being active once we make a choice. If, for example, Hool and Cresti were to jump back into action, I would happily go with Option 2. But, on the other hand, Option 1 would get Tomás Gariçéir back into action, which would be equally joyful an occasion for me. (FYI, Tomás says that he's not keen to take up citizenship again, which I told him was fine, because that's what Iác is doing.)
Another point I forgot about is that so many of the online resources - including l'Overstéir - are currently set up for 2007 orthography, which hardly anyone wants to stick to without revisions or reversions. What Hool, Cresti and the rest of the CÚG crowd who brought in the 2007 reforms have done is set up an infrastructure, and then just abandoned it. So to a large extent - unless those guys come back - we are starting from scratch, whatever we do.
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Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial
Batetz las maes, perf. —— Freelance glheþineir (I only accept Worthless Internet Points™ as payment)
Posts: 448
Talossan Since: May 12, 2014
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Post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on May 14, 2019 7:26:34 GMT -6
TBH the reason why I didnt post anything in the last few days was that I was waiting for Tomás to respond to the things I brought up. As I see it, the whole situation is more nuanced than just "Revert to Ben's spelling" or "Continue the compromise". As Tomás himself said, he has no problem with the idea of reforming the spelling or regularising the vocabulary -- in fact, wanting to regularise the vocabulary is a pretty extreme position in context -- so really the possible solutions would be:
1) Return to pre-2007 spellings but stick to post-2007 pronunciations, 2) Figuring out the Î situation with the Orthographic Reunision, or 3) Working on a different spelling compromise and regularising the vocabulary
Personally, I dont really mind it either way if the [ɨ] sound comes back or not or whether pre- or post-2007 pronunciations are to be declared official; the only thing I want is a unified standard spelling because approximately 1000% of Glheþ materials are written-only anyway and thats where divisions are the most noticeable.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 15:21:29 GMT -6
TBH the reason why I didnt post anything in the last few days was that I was waiting for Tomás to respond to the things I brought up. Tomás is busy but he is going to respond when he gets a moment
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 16:10:24 GMT -6
BTW I've asked the webmaster of cuglang.com - who happens to be the Senator from Florencia - if and when it can be brought back up.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 14, 2019 21:42:06 GMT -6
The CÚG domain name has lapsed, but the website is now back up. So we can use this material, or not use this, depending on where we go from here.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on May 17, 2019 8:38:35 GMT -6
The CÚG domain name has lapsed, but the website is now back up. So we can use this material, or not use this, depending on where we go from here. Honestly, anything that's written in both Talossan and English is good to have. as well as the other languages.
It just looks like all the CSS (webpage styling) got dropped, and now everything's in Times New Roman. XP
(Actually, why wasn't the CÚG site ever translated in German? We have German speakers and German is very widely-spoken. Seems a little strange to me.)
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on May 20, 2019 9:49:20 GMT -6
Ok, would anyone like to summarize the results of this thread? I'm sure it's achieved something new.
Right?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 20, 2019 15:58:38 GMT -6
What it's achieved is that it's made it plain who is interested in actually contributing to building a new Talossan language organisation - and who just wants to complain, and should therefore get out of the way.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but things do not happen instantly, and getting dripping sarcasm from someone who decided not to be a citizen and has not actually volunteered to do any work while things are happening, slowly, is not what anyone needs. Let me bring up, as a case in point, the question of "why wasn't the CÚG website translated into German?" Answer: because no Germanophones volunteered to do so, yet. For things to be created, and to be maintained, requires labour, which is a finite commodity.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on May 21, 2019 1:09:20 GMT -6
Aw, screw you. I got enough shit on my plate already. I don't need another helping from you.
I'm outta this dinky little roleplay you guys all cluster around like it's the only thing that matters. I liked this language, but ehhh... let it die for all I care now. Vive la mort!
If anyone really needs to message me for whatever reason, my Discord is Arkadios#5725. Otherwise, hail Satan and have a lovely afternoon.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 21, 2019 15:02:32 GMT -6
Well, that was efficient! Anyway, Sir Tomás Gariçéir sends his apologies that he hasn't had time to reply to Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial's questions yet, but he is working on it. Perhaps now we can have a respectful discussion, where people who actually want to make an effort can reach a consensus. It might not happen quickly but it will happen. Given that, contrary to popular report, Sir C. M. Siervicül has not withdrawn from Talossanity altogether, or at least is still interested in his legislative duties, and given that he's "last man standing" from the existing CÚG, I crave his input.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 26, 2019 16:31:32 GMT -6
Right. Given that everyone seems to have had their say, here are my feelings on the discussion. Firstly, I personally am not a "conlanger", except at the fringes. I wouldn't have either the time and energy to perform a deep dive into the language material to seek reforms - although I don't object anyone else doing the same. My primary interest is to see the language useable, and used. Given the above, I want to see stability so that people can learn and use the language without an Arestada changing the rules every so often. But for learning, we need learning and reference materials online. The most useful tool I have found for those rare occasions where I use ár glheþ is l'Översteir, which uses the Talossan of the 2007 reforms - although often I "unadapt" the spelling back to the 1997 spellings I'm used to. Given all that, then here is the news. - Under El Lexhatx D.2.7.2., I hereby personally take over the office of la Ladîntsch Naziunál, since the incumbent, Sir C. M. Siervicül , has shown disinterest in the duties of this role over at least the last two Cosâ terms.
- I make a unilateral ruling that there is, as of now, NO OFFICIAL ORTHOGRAPHIC STANDARD FOR EL GLHEÞ TALOSSÁN, as far as the Ministry of Culture/Büreu del Glheþ Talossán is concerned. We declare ourselves radically neutral between pre-2004 Talossan, 2007 Talossan and the version most recently endorsed by the most recent CÚG decisions. Write it however you like, we don't care right now. Just write it.
- I officially request Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial and Tomás Gariçéir to form a Comità del Sagrüt Glheþesc (Committee of Linguistic Reunification) to produce a proposal for a new single standard for our national language. Take your time on this, guys, we need something that will last decades. I empower them to add anyone else to these deliberations who is interested and keen to help. I am happy to observe these deliberations but I'm not sure I can help very much.
- I encourage everyone who is interested in learning/using the Talossan language to tell us what kind of learning materials would be most useful for them. I might actually put together a formal survey on the issue.
If anyone has any problems with this, now is the time to say so.
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Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial
Batetz las maes, perf. —— Freelance glheþineir (I only accept Worthless Internet Points™ as payment)
Posts: 448
Talossan Since: May 12, 2014
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Post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on Sept 10, 2019 11:11:58 GMT -6
As an update on the î question, Tomás never responded to my e-mail. It's been months. I officially give up.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 10, 2019 14:43:45 GMT -6
As an update on the î question, Tomás never responded to my e-mail. It's been months. I officially give up. Fair enough. Tomás is obviously too busy. We'll have to keep going without him. If you are still interested in getting SIGN going as a replacement for CÚG, then Iac Marscheir as Ladîntsch Naziunál and I will contact you soon./
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 10, 2019 15:11:39 GMT -6
I have a remark:
Why not put this of for a while? I think the fact that no orthographic convention is currently endorsed might be a very good thing. It would certainly encourage me to produce more translations and/or original content in Talossan, and would give us more corpus upon which to actually base an “orthographic unificiation”.
Meanwhile, the Ladintschen can work informally and behind the scenes to see what works best for them, and make a more informed decision once it has been in use frequently.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 10, 2019 16:38:43 GMT -6
I have a remark: Why not put this of for a while? I think the fact that no orthographic convention is currently endorsed might be a very good thing. It would certainly encourage me to produce more translations and/or original content in Talossan, and would give us more corpus upon which to actually base an “orthographic unificiation”. Meanwhile, the Ladintschen can work informally and behind the scenes to see what works best for them, and make a more informed decision once it has been in use frequently. Welcome back, Epic. I hope we can now shift to discussion of reviving SIGN.
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