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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 7:26:40 GMT -6
The RUMP still stands for all the same things we've always stood for -- derivatism and monarchy and practical solutions to real problems. But right now the most imminent problem is that Talossa is in a death spiral with no prospect of recovery, thanks to bitter partisanship, poor priorities, and people clutching their old grudges like family heirlooms.
Like right now, how many people have piled on, looking to score points, because I tried something new that I thought might help. I wrote every immigrant I could who had arrived in the last couple of years and was available for contact on Witt (which took a sadly short amount of time), asked them if they were interested in getting involved in Talossa again (since almost none of them had been on Witt in months), and then tried to put as many known people on the RUMP list as possible so that I could offer seats to as many people who might want to be involved as possible (since we're limited to a third). After someone pointed out that it could be read as an endorsement of the RUMP, I asked the SoS to change it to just RUMP folks. I'm sure those two hours or whatever were terribly damaging to our democracy, but the bad-faith pile-on is part of what's wrong here.
I think Talossa is great. I ran the biggest organization that the country has ever had for a year and a half, publishing cultural columns, language columns, puzzles, cartoons, editorials from across the spectrum, and news. No one was ever interested in the culture, language, puzzles, GTA news, or editorials, of course, but I worked hard at making sure that we were a responsible news organization. But people were mostly interested in criticizing and attacking me for controversial cartoons and news with which they disagreed. I am sure I made a lot of mistakes in doing something big and hard in the country, but there's good reasons I shied away from re-opening the paper. I almost did -- applied for a grant and everything! -- but I reflected that it was going to take up all of my Talossa time and just subject me to a ton of nastiness. So why do it?
I have also spent a lot of time talking to some former Talossans and inactive ones -- not just RUMPers -- and their response is that they aren't interested in the atmosphere of this place any more. It's not fun for most people. Even the leader of the Free Democrats has said that she doesn't think Talossa is fun, and that barely caused a ripple of surprise.
Yes, the RUMP is focusing on other things. We'll vote for the same stuff we think is important, and oppose other things, but right now the biggest problem faced by Talossa is that (a) Talossa isn't fun for most people, (b) that hurts the prospects of a healthy, lasting community of folks having fun, and (c) there is no reason to think that anything is going to change about (a) or (b) unless we start doing things differently.
It is stupid that new immigrants can't be in the Cosa. Being in the Cosa is fun. The party list law is hurting our country. I tried to get around it, and reversed myself when someone pointed out the problem. I will continue to try new things, since the status quo is not acceptable.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Mar 26, 2019 7:37:30 GMT -6
Like right now, how many people have piled on, looking to score points, because I tried something new that I thought might help. I wrote every immigrant I could who had arrived in the last couple of years and was available for contact on Witt (which took a sadly short amount of time), asked them if they were interested in getting involved in Talossa again (since almost none of them had been on Witt in months), and then tried to put as many known people on the RUMP list as possible so that I could offer seats to as many people who might want to be involved as possible (since we're limited to a third). After someone pointed out that it could be read as an endorsement of the RUMP, I asked the SoS to change it to just RUMP folks. I'm sure those two hours or whatever were terribly damaging to our democracy, but the bad-faith pile-on is part of what's wrong here. The blowback might have been a bit harsh, but there were plenty of people on your original list who were obviously not going to accept RUMP seats (i.e. every single MC from the previous Cosa even though most are members of other parties). Had you really only listed citizens who you might have convinced to return to activity, I still wouldn't have agreed with it, but it would have been a lot more understandable. New immigrants can be in the Cosa! This is why the 1/3 rule exists and I won't support an effort to change that any time soon.
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on Mar 26, 2019 7:49:32 GMT -6
I'm confused, could I sit in Cosa next election?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 8:24:55 GMT -6
You could sit in the Cosa in this upcoming term, yes! If you want to do so, please let me know, and the RUMP will give you a seat. There are no ideological obligations attached -- just participate and have fun being a legislator.
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on Mar 26, 2019 11:12:09 GMT -6
Apparently I've broken Talossan law already though. I needed to update parts that were "blank" because i stated who i was voting for. I need to email Gluc to sort it. Anyone got it?
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Amada Merþedes
Citizen of Talossa
Dead-Talossan-Name: Alexandreu Regeu
Posts: 249
Talossan Since: 26th of March, 2019
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Post by Amada Merþedes on Mar 26, 2019 11:18:47 GMT -6
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 11:42:41 GMT -6
Literally does not matter to me who you vote for on any level, or whether you've been a Talossan for a day or a decade. Being in the Cosa is fun and every Talossan should have the opportunity if they wish. It shouldn't be required to be in the Cosa, nor should you lose your political voice if you do not wish to do so (which is why we're a representative democracy), but I firmly believe everyone should get a chance to have at least one seat if it's possible at all.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Mar 26, 2019 13:19:03 GMT -6
It is stupid that new immigrants can't be in the Cosa. It is actively criminal that a political party can try to build a false majority by handing out seats to whoever asks for them, in exchange for a vote from people who have no Talossan experience and don't know their bad reputation. You see the sneaky trap here? Joe Newcitizen votes RUMP because they'll give him a free seat or two. But the RUMP will claim that into an endorsement of their Right-wing platform, and take it as a mandate for their leader to become Seneschál. Two-faced at best. As I keep saying: people keep whinging that provincial legislatures are inactive. Perhaps this is because everyone who wants to be in politics is drafted into Kingdom politics. I don't know which province new citizen Regeu has been assigned to, but I'm sure that legislature could use some volunteers. You can have representative government; OR you can have direct democracy. The sneaky RUMP trick is that they offer a simulation of direct democracy, but spin it into an endorsement of their platform/Seneschál candidate. Danger!
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Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial
Batetz las maes, perf. —— Freelance glheþineir (I only accept Worthless Internet Points™ as payment)
Posts: 448
Talossan Since: May 12, 2014
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Post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on Mar 26, 2019 13:36:45 GMT -6
Couldn't Joe Newcitizen join RUMP, and then instantly leave and take their seats with them after the Election? Wouldn't that be unfair towards RUMP voters?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Mar 26, 2019 13:49:16 GMT -6
Couldn't Joe Newcitizen join RUMP, and then instantly leave and take their seats with them after the Election? Wouldn't that be unfair towards RUMP voters? I forget what the current law is, whether a Party Leader can force-reassign seats without the holder's consent. If I had been unscrupulous I might have claimed RUMP seats and just taken them and voted with the Free Democrats.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 15:13:31 GMT -6
It is stupid that new immigrants can't be in the Cosa. It is actively criminal that a political party can try to build a false majority by handing out seats to whoever asks for them, in exchange for a vote from people who have no Talossan experience and don't know their bad reputation. You see the sneaky trap here? Joe Newcitizen votes RUMP because they'll give him a free seat or two. But the RUMP will claim that into an endorsement of their Right-wing platform, and take it as a mandate for their leader to become Seneschál. Two-faced at best. As I keep saying: people keep whinging that provincial legislatures are inactive. Perhaps this is because everyone who wants to be in politics is drafted into Kingdom politics. I don't know which province new citizen Regeu has been assigned to, but I'm sure that legislature could use some volunteers. You can have representative government; OR you can have direct democracy. The sneaky RUMP trick is that they offer a simulation of direct democracy, but spin it into an endorsement of their platform/Seneschál candidate. Danger! Miestra, we disagree. That does not make me "actively criminal" or "two-faced," and that kind of rhetoric contributes to the nasty partisanship around here. I am not going to respond in kind, but please stop. I think that new citizens should be able to participate in the Cosa, because that is what is interesting and a lot of people care about. If people wish to participate in their province and on the national level, they can and should do both. Your argument seems to be that if we restrict people from being in the Cosa, they will be forced to be active in their provinces. I think that argument is very wrong. Listen, it just doesn't work. There might be a handful of people who have become active in their provinces when barred from the Cosa, but I can't think of any. You just can't compel people to want to do stuff like that. They'll do it if they think it's fun. I don't know what percentage of people immigrate, get bored when they can't do anything, and stop paying attention at all. But I bet it's something like 90% or higher. It didn't used to be that way. Something has to change. I don't understand how I could be bribing Regeu when he's already voted Free Democrat. I don't care that he voted for you guys -- I just want to keep him interested and involved. I know that you will not give him a seat in the Cosa, so he will have to wait at least eight months to get one, maybe more. I want to keep him around, so I am offering him one seat in the Cosa. I think the RUMP has been very clear about this policy for many years, and even more so now: we are trying to make things fun, and the loss of a seat in the Cosa is worth it a hundredfold if it gets us another long-term, interested citizen. I'll make that trade every day of the week.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 15:14:35 GMT -6
Couldn't Joe Newcitizen join RUMP, and then instantly leave and take their seats with them after the Election? Wouldn't that be unfair towards RUMP voters? I forget what the current law is, whether a Party Leader can force-reassign seats without the holder's consent. If I had been unscrupulous I might have claimed RUMP seats and just taken them and voted with the Free Democrats. If you weren't going to have the chance to sit in the Cosa without RUMP seats, I'd give you one. I'd give you one every term, every time, forever. We'd ask nothing from you -- except that you stayed interested, had fun, and got involved.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 26, 2019 15:17:23 GMT -6
Couldn't Joe Newcitizen join RUMP, and then instantly leave and take their seats with them after the Election? Wouldn't that be unfair towards RUMP voters? It is possible someone very unscrupulous could do that. Not everything legal is smart or ethical, though. When someone pointed out that listing everyone on the RUMP list might create a false impression, that seemed dumb and unethical to me, so I reversed the decision. I assume that any party who benefited from some sort of scam like this would make it right.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Mar 26, 2019 22:29:27 GMT -6
The answer, to me, lies in the middle ground.
Additional member system (AMS parliament) where we directly elect named candidates by constituency to half the parliament and top up the other half with votes for a party. You could take it further and have 1/3 elected by constituency, 1/3 by party list and 1/3 non-list party.
The problem is we don't have enough active citizens to make it work.
nb: It *might* be possible if the Senate was abolished in favour of a unicameral parliament and if seating was changed from fake200 to realX.
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Mar 27, 2019 6:47:06 GMT -6
The answer, to me, lies in the middle ground. Additional member system (AMS parliament) where we directly elect named candidates by constituency to half the parliament and top up the other half with votes for a party. You could take it further and have 1/3 elected by constituency, 1/3 by party list and 1/3 non-list party. The problem is we don't have enough active citizens to make it work. nb: It *might* be possible if the Senate was abolished in favour of a unicameral parliament and if seating was changed from fake200 to realX. This is something I could really get behind, to be honest. A real-seat parliament. Though if it is gone 1/3-1/3-1/3... even that might be too tight.
What about 1/2-1/4-1/4*? Essentially, the parliament consists half of the old senate seats and half distributed to party (with the caveat that at least half of those seats must go to the list). That would get us about 16 people. Still a tall order.
I think, honestly, that part of our issue is that we're trying to maintain an infrastructure that is just too... big. Like rust belt cities that overbuilt and the wound up hollowed out... a shrinking base doesn't mean there are suddenly fewer miles of road to maintain. At least not without some difficult and radical changes.
The 97 orglaw was written in the heyday of Micronationalism, and when Talossa was the apex of that particular burgeoning hobby. Growth was huge and sustained. There was no reason to think that hundreds of citizens was outside the realm of possibility.
We point to reduced immigration rates. But we need to keep in mind that this isn't a purely a Talossan thing. It's afflicting the hobby across the board. We need to adjust to this reality. We need a governing document that allows us to do that.
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