Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Mar 5, 2019 15:36:41 GMT -6
With whatever proposal we decide, there should be an option to seek an intermediate level of appeal prior to Cort for periods of suspension longer than, say, 12 hours. For instance, suspending someone from posting in the Ziu or Hopper could be appealable to a vote of the full Ziu, or suspending someone from posting in the Immigration Thread could be appealable to the government (the Seneschal). It wouldn't prohibit someone from going to the Cort system, but could allow faster resolution. Wow, this sounds like cumbersome bureaucracy. In most legislatures the Chair's word is final, within carefully bounded rules.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on Mar 5, 2019 15:43:20 GMT -6
With whatever proposal we decide, there should be an option to seek an intermediate level of appeal prior to Cort for periods of suspension longer than, say, 12 hours. For instance, suspending someone from posting in the Ziu or Hopper could be appealable to a vote of the full Ziu, or suspending someone from posting in the Immigration Thread could be appealable to the government (the Seneschal). It wouldn't prohibit someone from going to the Cort system, but could allow faster resolution. Wow, this sounds like cumbersome bureaucracy. In most legislatures the Chair's word is final, within carefully bounded rules. In the US, the Chair's ruling is usually appealable.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 5, 2019 15:55:42 GMT -6
Well, I would assume the eventual system would just have individual folks in charge of specific boards, with the king as a person to whom folks could appeal immediately, and with the courts as the ultimate arbiter. But I think it would be very easy to get caught up in minutiae on this one. Let's just figure out something that works pretty well, make sure it adheres to the basic principles we hold dear (like popular sovereignty, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly) and move on to stuff that matters. This is one of those things we should just solve as well as we can, and then move on to important things.
This is why I plunked the Seneschal as a person to come up with the specifics with the king. And if it turns out that they work out that someone else is the immediate appeals person, whatever. Let's just figure it out.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Mar 5, 2019 17:11:42 GMT -6
In the US, the Chair's ruling is usually appealable. Misleading - perhaps deliberately? That document says that a ruling of the chair of the Senate is appealable to the full body, not to some outside authority - which is, IMHO, all well and good. But it argues against AD's argument that a Cosa/Senats majority or its elected representative cannot be trusted to keep order without going nuts and persecuting minorities.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Mar 5, 2019 18:32:30 GMT -6
As someone with a fair share of activity in the American political sphere these days, I assure you that in that chamber -- populated with folks with a vested longterm interest in preserving institutional decorum and their own personal brand -- the power is abused.
EDIT: Edited out a specific example. I try to keep American politics as separate from my Talossan experience as possible. Just trust me, the power is abused.
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Mar 18, 2019 19:53:28 GMT -6
But, in the case of the US Senate (which I imagine people are referencing), even a 2-term senator has already served a Talossan lifetime. The standards which we apply to one scale may not be applicable to the smaller/ephemeral scale of Talossanity. (As a thinkpiece, 5 currently sitting US Senators have a seniority that is within close order of our nation's age... and one has sat in that body longer than we have existed!!)
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 1, 2019 20:10:21 GMT -6
WHEREAS in most nations, responsibility for keeping order and civil debate in the Legislature is a function of the President/Chair/Speaker of that Chamber;
AND WHEREAS in Talossa, most debate on occurs not in the formal chambers of the Ziu, but in the Hopper;
AND WHEREAS the Hopper has degenerated into a kind of "Wild West" atmosphere, with MCs baiting, trolling and abusing each other;
AND WHEREAS this is unseemly;
AND WHEREAS the Mençéi has established good rules for debate among Senators, but nothing similar exists for the Cosa as yet;BE IT ESTABLISHED by the King, Cosa and Senäts of Talossa in Ziu assembled that El Lexhátx H.20 shall be amended as follows: Welp, I'm just about ready to Clark this version. Unless someone wants to come up with a whole Code of Conduct for the Hopper within 15 days? If we can come to a consensus on that, I'll be happy to add it.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 1, 2019 20:20:49 GMT -6
How do you feel about my proposal that would accompany and enable this one?
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Apr 1, 2019 20:24:36 GMT -6
WHEREAS in most nations, responsibility for keeping order and civil debate in the Legislature is a function of the President/Chair/Speaker of that Chamber;
AND WHEREAS in Talossa, most debate on occurs not in the formal chambers of the Ziu, but in the Hopper;
AND WHEREAS the Hopper has degenerated into a kind of "Wild West" atmosphere, with MCs baiting, trolling and abusing each other;
AND WHEREAS this is unseemly;
AND WHEREAS the Mençéi has established good rules for debate among Senators, but nothing similar exists for the Cosa as yet;BE IT ESTABLISHED by the King, Cosa and Senäts of Talossa in Ziu assembled that El Lexhátx H.20 shall be amended as follows: Welp, I'm just about ready to Clark this version. Unless someone wants to come up with a whole Code of Conduct for the Hopper within 15 days? If we can come to a consensus on that, I'll be happy to add it. I'd like to see gender-refences removed. Instead of he, they, or just refer to the person by the title.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Apr 1, 2019 20:25:49 GMT -6
How do you feel about my proposal that would accompany and enable this one? You mean, Witt moderation? I don't have any serious problems at first glance.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 1, 2019 20:28:45 GMT -6
Yes, that one. I intend to Clark it alongside yours. Would you be open to tweaks that would not substantively change your bill but would make it work better within this larger schema?
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