Humble Request to Address the Senate

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

I come before you with the humble request to address a concern which both directly affects both this body and myself.

Might I be allowed to speak within these august Chambers?

Gen. Txoteu É. Davinescu, MC

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

It is highly unusual for a Member of Cosă to approach the Senate, and even before the Cosă has been in session, at that. The Senate shall make allowances due to the petitioner’s relative inexperience within the Ziu.

The Senate will entertain the citizen Txoteu Davinescu’s request, and recognises his prayer to be heard.

Would the Member of Cosă now state his business?

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

Senators,
Thank you for this opportunity to address this esteemed body.

As a candidate for the post of Senator for the Sovereign Province of Maricopa in this most recent election, I ran in good faith of a fair election process. Now, I come from a military and law enforcement background in my professional life, and while I am not one to point fingers... I have learned a mantra that has lived with me for years. "The appearance of impropriety is impropriety in itself."

Now, I would respectfully ask how Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. entering a Senatorial election process that, apparently, he had no intention of actually serving if elected... while he also served as Premier of Maricopa, thereby granting him the right to appoint a Senator to fill a vacant seat caused by his own election to a post he could not legally hold... isn't a form of rigging an election?

I hate to even think such impropriety would occur but the fact that a sitting member of the Upper Cort jumped into a Senatorial election, then once elected refused to vacate their seat on the Cort... thereby forcing the Senate to declare the seat vacant... thus allowing him to in turn appoint a Senator does appear highly suspect.

Senators, this is a prime example of people wearing a few too many hats and in this case, it appears to have determined a Senatorial election. I understand that I am a younger Citizen but when you try to serve and face this kind of challenge, it can be very disheartening indeed.

I thank you all for your attention to this matter and I am gracious for the opportunity to address this concern with you. Unless there are questions in regards to this topic, I shall now take my leave.

Thanks you all,
Gen. Txoteu É. Davinescu, MC     

[Eðo Grischun]

MC Davinecu,

I understand the frustration you must be feeling post election, however I feel that this is not the appropriate venue to vent such frustrations and to make accusations in this manner within the chambers of the Ziu is certainly unparliamentary.

I would suggest a more appropriate avenue for such accusations would be the judicial system.

I will also add that I disagree with the statement "The appearance of impropriety is impropriety in itself"; but that is supplemental. I am extremely confident that impropriety did not take place in the Maricopan election nor was the election 'rigged'. I offer you what I believe to be the truth: BenArd simply didn't know the law when he decided to run.

[Iac Marscheir]

Oct 23, 2017 11:51:13 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

BenArd simply didn't know the law when he decided to run.

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

Any person running for any office should be familiar with any laws that apply to candidates.

Apologies for sticking my nose where unbidden.

[Eðo Grischun]

Oct 23, 2017 12:00:29 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Oct 23, 2017 11:51:13 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

BenArd simply didn't know the law when he decided to run.

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

Any person running for any office should be familiar with any laws that apply to candidates.

Apologies for sticking my nose where unbidden.

I agree: Ignorantia juris non excusat.

But, someone perhaps being ignorant to a law then acting foolishly once called out on it isn't the same as rigging the election.

[Eðo Grischun]

Oct 23, 2017 10:09:50 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

... it can be very disheartening indeed. ...

I'd just like to also say that I hope you are not disheartened to the point of not wanting to continue. I'm looking forward to seeing the bill you bring forward that addresses your concerns with the electoral system.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

Oct 23, 2017 11:51:13 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

MC Davinecu,

I understand the frustration you must be feeling post election, however I feel that this is not the appropriate venue to vent such frustrations and to make accusations in this manner within the chambers of the Ziu is certainly unparliamentary.

I would suggest a more appropriate avenue for such accusations would be the judicial system.

I will also add that I disagree with the statement "The appearance of impropriety is impropriety in itself"; but that is supplemental. I am extremely confident that impropriety did not take place in the Maricopan election nor was the election 'rigged'. I offer you what I believe to be the truth: BenArd simply didn't know the law when he decided to run.

Please note... my intention was not to bring this in as an accusation levied but more to point out that as elected leaders, we need to be more responsible in how we conduct our affairs. If this was something I genuinely felt was of criminal intent, I can assure you, I would have taken it to the Cort. Again, it's the appearance that concerns me and I wanted to reach out to this body with the same concerns I intend to address with mine. We have too many people wearing too many hats and when it starts to appear a "good'ol boys club", people will leave to go on to other endeavors.

Thank you again for the opportunity to address my concern

[Glüc da Dhi]

Oct 23, 2017 12:00:29 GMT -6 Iac Marscheir said:

Oct 23, 2017 11:51:13 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

BenArd simply didn't know the law when he decided to run.

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

Any person running for any office should be familiar with any laws that apply to candidates.

Apologies for sticking my nose where unbidden.

An exception was made for MC Davinescu because he asked for permission to speak and was given permission by the Mencei, but the general rule is that this is not supposed to be a public forum where everyone can speak on any topic. We have witt for that, or the chatroom, or the shoutbox, or you can address this topic from the Cosa chamber, but please don't post here uninvited (and this goes for everyone who is not a senator).

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

The honoured members of this House are always welcome to address audience petitioners after they have been admitted by the Office of the Mençei. I do, however, wish that they would allow for sufficient reaction time to pass before charging into the defence of this House’s decorum.

That being said, S:reu Iac Marscheir , I would ask you to refrain from appearing and speaking in these Chambers without invitation to do so. There are rules, and procedures, in place, and I would thank you to treat them with respect. If you would be so kind as to leave now, I shall be inclined to forget the matter. Any thoughts you may have as to the publicly available proceedings of this House, you may comment in a publicly accessible forum.

In reply of the Honourable Member of Cosă’s reservations as to the senatorial seat for Maricopa, I thank the Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu for his commitment and dedication to resolving conflicts of interest and to discussing about his opinions; I must nevertheless issue a reprimand for misappropriating this forum of the Senäts for a matter that could have been resolved by other, more public means of dissemination of opinion. Since the matter has, however, come before this House, I shall also voice my opinion:

I can say that I understand and, to a certain degree, share the Member of Cosă’s feelings of vexation; the situation of Talossan Multiple Hats is quite irksome. Sadly, this Phenomenon of the Multiple Hats (PMH) is currently inevitable, due to the low numbers of truly active citizens. There will always be certain dubious interactions, which seemingly possess a high degree of a conflict of interest. In my opinion, the matter is indeed legally questionable, but probably less so actionable. The only way to resolve and eliminate PMH in Talossa is by new citizens, like the Honourable Citizen Davinescu himself, joining and making an effort to participate in our quotidian Talossan lives.

And, after all, the General will know himself that standing in elections does not guarantee a win. Indeed, had Citizen Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM., dropped out of the race, and the runner-up taken his place, this would still result in Cresti Matáiwos Siervicül, UrN, becoming the next Senator for Maricopa.
I am, however, still sympathetic towards the audience petitioner’s feelings.

Finally, my good colleague and provincial ally, the Senator Eðo Grischun , made a remark and defence about acting foolishly in ignorance of the law. This defence, however, certainly and emphatically holds not up to scrutiny: even if a Justice of the Uppermost Cort (!), which the previous Senator-Elect is, could not be required to know every single legal stipulation within our Kingdom, one must be able to expect such a Justice of the Uppermost Cort to be responsible and able enough to peruse relevant bodies of law as pertains unto a possible election as Senator. If this could not be reasonably expected from our Justices, I would seriously fear for the aptness of our current judicial system; to the point that I would consider removing such wantonly negligent Keepers of the Law from the Bench.

I hereby thank the General Davinescu for his interest and initiative in the exchange of opinions, excusing and discharging him from this august House.
Any further discussion involving non-Senators is remanded into the realms of a publicly accessible forum of discussion.

[Eðo Grischun]

I don't think its right to threaten any Justice's tenure based on a political gaffe outside of the court and outside of court duties and not based on any of conduct within the Court or on a court case.

It's a Justice's job to interpret law as it applies to a given situation when presented with arguments.

It's possible that BenArd decided to run for Senate and then read the entirety of Article 4 (Election to the Senate) and the entirety of Article 5 (Composition of the Senate), where no mention is made of the restriction, and thought there was no restriction. It seems a reasonable mistake to make. Certainly not improper. Certainly not reason enough for the pitchforks. Jeez.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Oct 23, 2017 18:16:19 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

I don't think its right to threaten any Justice's tenure based on a political gaffe outside of the court and outside of court duties and not based on any of conduct within the Court or on a court case.

It's a Justice's job to interpret law as it applies to a given situation when presented with arguments.

It's possible that BenArd decided to run for Senate and then read the entirety of Article 4 (Election to the Senate) and the entirety of Article 5 (Composition of the Senate), where no mention is made of the restriction, and thought there was no restriction. It seems a reasonable mistake to make. Certainly not improper. Certainly not reason enough for the pitchforks. Jeez.

No, but as a Justice, I would also look at the restrictions there are for Judges, since this is clearly and obviously an issue of separation of powers.

My colleague’s argument does not convince nor persuade; a Justice must be held to higher standards, and there is no need for exasperation when a judge is indeed held to higher standards – it has nothing to do with pitchforks.

[Eðo Grischun]

Firstly, let's remember I'm making a guess as to what BenArd might have done. I am speculating, not giving evidence.

I agree with my learned colleague from Maritiimi-Maxhestic when he says that a Justice must be held to higher standards, however I would argue that all applicable standards in this instance have not been breached to the point of warranting a removal from post.

To demand superior perfection in our small community is unreasonable.

Anyway, to return to the initial points of this session, I think the issue is provincial and there really isn't anything for the Senate to discuss at this stage. I remind all of my colleagues that we are here, in this chamber, to represent our respective provincial constituents. If Maricopa has a problem, we should not all overly-meddle in her affairs.

I move that the Mençei close this session of the house and redirect, with thanks, MC Davinescu to a more appropriate venue.

[Glüc da Dhi]

I fully understand the frustration of MC Davinescu and I'm also sympathetic to those Maricopans who voted for the winning candidate only to be disappointed. However, I agree with the Senator from Vuode that this isn't really the appropriate venue to adress these concerns.

I note that the Cabana will soon assemble, which might be a more appropriate place to discuss the actions of the outgoing premieir. Next year there will be a Senatorial election in Maricopa again, allowing the citizens to once again elect a Senator.

For now though, I agree that this session should probably be closed. Of course, should legislation be proposed regarding the procedures for vacant senate seats, the election of senators or the limitations that exist for certain offices, I'm sure we all would be happy to discuss it.

To end on a positive note, even though the resulting situation is unfortunate, the senatorial election in Maricopa was one of the most fascinating elections we've had in years, seeing for the first time how IRV resolves a situation where none of the candidates have the support of a majority. Additionally, I don't think anyone dispute the actions of the new senator from Maricopa, who would have won the election, if the votes for S;reu Ardpresteir had been discarded and is willing to accept the position.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Esteemed Senators,

after the petitioner has been excused a while ago, and two Senators have moved for this discussion to be closed, I thank every member of the Senäts, and otherwise, for participating in this discussion according to the Senäts’ house rules. I hereby declare this session adjourned, and commend you to the Fruit and Beverages Bar. I understand that Senator da Dhi has restocked the beverages quite handsomely.