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Post by Avocat-Xheneral on Oct 9, 2017 4:01:26 GMT -6
Ministry of Justice Office of the Attorney General
That Org.Law XIII.1 mandates the resignation of members of the Cosâ, but permits those serving in Government to remain in such positions till the outcome of the election is resolved. It was and remains my reading of the Organic Law that these positions are held de jure and not de facto - or in other terms, that one must make an affirmative statement invoking the right to remain in the office until such time as the election has been resolved.
Nevertheless, to cure the defect of perception, I shall make it perfectly clear - since the dissolution of the Cosa, I have not viewed myself as Attorney General in any capacity. To that end, let this notice serve as my official resignation from the position until such time as a new government is formed, and, if so desired, I am re-appointed as Attorney General.
Finally, to clarify any other misconceptions about the Ministry of Justice or the Attorney General, let it be known that the Attorney General is not a member of the judiciary, but a member of the executive branch, or in the case of the Talossa, the quasi-executive branch (Prime Minister and the Cabinet) existing within the legislature (the Ziu).
Kind Regards,
Viteu Marcianüs
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Post by Danihél Roðgarüt on Oct 9, 2017 4:34:25 GMT -6
Interesting. In the UK MPs cease to be MPs when Parliament is dissolved, but Ministers stay in office until the new Government is appointed or they resign.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Oct 9, 2017 4:52:01 GMT -6
The Org Law permits (i.e., use of the word "may") a Cabinet member to continue to serve. Is is not mandatory. While there is benefit in continuity between governments, it is not required.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Oct 9, 2017 5:08:02 GMT -6
Interesting. In the UK MPs cease to be MPs when Parliament is dissolved, but Ministers stay in office until the new Government is appointed or they resign. Indeed, and this is my interpretation of our laws and customs as well. From January 1st to January 31st, while the election verification protracted itself, Sir Cresti graciously allowed me to serve as Prime Minister; but even though the Cosa had been dissolved in October, all of the ministers were still occupying their respective portfolios. I was still the Distain when Cresti stepped down two months after dissolution, for example.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Oct 9, 2017 5:52:30 GMT -6
Finally, to clarify any other misconceptions about the Ministry of Justice or the Attorney General, let it be known that the Attorney General is not a member of the judiciary, but a member of the executive branch, or in the case of the Talossa, the quasi-executive branch (Prime Minister and the Cabinet) existing within the legislature (the Ziu). True, but a caveat should be noted. The Attorney-General, as a solicitor, prosecutor, and ex-officio member of the bar, is also an officer of the court.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Oct 9, 2017 6:00:13 GMT -6
Finally, to clarify any other misconceptions about the Ministry of Justice or the Attorney General, let it be known that the Attorney General is not a member of the judiciary, but a member of the executive branch, or in the case of the Talossa, the quasi-executive branch (Prime Minister and the Cabinet) existing within the legislature (the Ziu). True, but a caveat should be noted. The Attorney-General, as a solicitor, prosecutor, and ex-officio member of the bar, is also an officer of the court. Which would make for a lovely Cheney-esque law review article on separation of powers. Nevertheless, while I agree the non-government attorney is an officer of the court, the authority enjoyed by the AG places them firmly in the executive. They role of the Executive is to enforce the law; the AG does that through the courts. De facto membership does not overwhelm a technicality of how the courts percieve themselves.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Oct 9, 2017 6:32:28 GMT -6
FWIW, I still see myself as acting MinSTUFF until the appointment of a new cabinet.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Oct 9, 2017 6:58:24 GMT -6
That is, of course, your prerogative, and one that is understandable considering your party is likely to remain in government. Nevertheless, I do think at the dissolution of the next Cosâ, it would serve the government well to affirmatively state who will continue to serve in government until resolution of the election.
That said, my post was to clarify my position with respect to the current interim government. While I am not opposed to a second term as AG, I interpreted my position to have ended when the last government did. This post merely clarifies that understanding.
We can discuss the merits of some of the issues raised above, and as I said, I see the benefit of permitting cabinet members to continue to serve, but I would respectively offer that the AG is particularly unique, for reasons alluded to in Cresi's observation, but also it would be terribly awkward for an AG to open an investigation, or file a suit, or anything of that sort, when the position may pass to another who takes a completely different approach (or perhaps, another party or coalition comes in that wants to withdraw the suit). To some degree, we're seeing this play out in the US with the recession of certain DOJ policies under the new administration.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Oct 9, 2017 7:15:42 GMT -6
I actually think the government “may” continue to serve is meant in the same sense that any of us (bar those legally restricted from doing so) “may” serve in the government. That is to say, nobody has to be in the government.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Oct 9, 2017 7:21:10 GMT -6
Finally, to clarify any other misconceptions about the Ministry of Justice or the Attorney General, let it be known that the Attorney General is not a member of the judiciary, but a member of the executive branch, or in the case of the Talossa, the quasi-executive branch (Prime Minister and the Cabinet) existing within the legislature (the Ziu). True, but a caveat should be noted. The Attorney-General, as a solicitor, prosecutor, and ex-officio member of the bar, is also an officer of the court. And an officer of the court with special powers as to legal proceedings, and investigations of Justices, etc. The political servants within the Ministry of Justice are not just regular officers of the court, as lawyers and barristers generally are — they represent a kind of intermediary power within the Justice System, and, as such, are not firmly part of the executive without being a firm part of the judiciary.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Oct 10, 2017 6:27:00 GMT -6
Interesting. In the UK MPs cease to be MPs when Parliament is dissolved, but Ministers stay in office until the new Government is appointed or they resign. in the UK Parliament is chosen by the people, and when dissolved ceases to exist: Ministers are appointed by the Crown (through the Prime Minister), and not (directly) by the people, and hence continue in office.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Oct 10, 2017 6:30:13 GMT -6
I believe that in the UK the Ministry of Justice is not a part of the Judiciary, but (partially) directs that which the Judiciary will consider. I could, of course, be wrong.
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Post by Danihél Roðgarüt on Oct 10, 2017 8:10:34 GMT -6
Interesting. In the UK MPs cease to be MPs when Parliament is dissolved, but Ministers stay in office until the new Government is appointed or they resign. in the UK Parliament is chosen by the people, and when dissolved ceases to exist: Ministers are appointed by the Crown (through the Prime Minister), and not (directly) by the people, and hence continue in office.If we're nitpicking, Parliament isn't chosen by the people, individual MPs are elected by electors in their constituencies. Parliament also consists of the Sovereign, and Peers sitting in the HofL. You're absolutely right about ministerial appointments. However, I'm determined not to do what I did last time and project British norms onto the RT! So I'll stand back and listen.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Oct 10, 2017 10:41:31 GMT -6
Oh project away. We all do it to some extent. I am guilty it from a US prospective, but I do try to marry the two as we are a cross between the UK, Canada, and the US.
That said, Talossa is unique in many regards but, as we rarely confront these issues, we should look to how other countries address the issue. The US may not serve as the best example as the Administration, ie President and Cabinet members, remain in power for a while after the election, but upon the peaceful transition of power, unless authorized by the Senate, cabinet secretaries (generally) go out with the outgoing president. In other systems, like ours, technically the government dissolves, to some extent, with the Cosâ, but for continuity and to ensure executive obligations are fulfilled, they may so choose to stay on until the election is resolved.
Ultimately, I would prefer an official announcement that unequivocally states which ministers have chosen to serve in the interim.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Oct 10, 2017 11:26:46 GMT -6
My interpretation has been that all Ministers are presumed to continue to serve during the interim unless they say that they aren't. I'm not a lawyer though so I could be wrong.
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