Fourth Clark of the 50th Cosă

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Good evening to all,

I call upon this House to begin the debates concerning this fourth Clark of our fiftieth Cosă, with following bills:

RZ18 - THE ORGANIC LAW AMENDMENT (Amendments (I Can't Believe This Is Still Ambiguous But Apparently It Is)) BILL
RZ19 - The Advisory King Amendment
RZ20 - The Easy Conversions Act
RZ21 - The Ham Sandwich Amendment
RZ22 - Sense of the Ziu: Early Referendum on the Monarchy

It seems, the Clark largely comprises reruns of bills...
Please come forth ye, who wish to speak.

Note that, within a few days, I will start a separate Voting Thread, so if you wish to vote in-Wittenberg, please wait for the appropriate place and time.

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Bună vhespră à thoct i tzară,

claméu q’această c'hasă auspicadra la rhaisnă över acest quartéu Clarqeu dad ar simeinçelaistă C'hosă, cün acestilor bproxhets:

RZ18 - EL PROXHET DA L’AMENDAMAINTSCH DEL LEGEU ORGÄNIC (Amendamaintschen (Non Puc Credarh Qe C'e Txa Ambiguös Mas Cumpäts C'e))
RZ19 - L’Amendamaintsch del Regeu Cunseglhînd
RZ20 - El Proxhet dal Cunvertaziun Fáþil
RZ21 - El Stinc-Sändwitsch Amendamaintsch
RZ22 - Sençù del Ziu: El Referendüm Frü På la Mhonarc'hà

Acest gClarqeu luscha estarh ün reherçamaintsch dad altreux bproxhets bpaßeschti...
Proximetz-veletz voi, qi perstrepetz.

Veladretz notarh qe véu asigürarh ün altreu phost da Vhotaziun da dhîn viensas ziuăs. Schi voletz votarh dîn Wittenberg, cün vfavour atendetz el post în vfragă.

[Eðo Grischun]

Esteemed Mençei,

May I begin these discussions by asking the supporters and/or opponents of the re-run bills to have one last shot of changing my mind?

If not convinced to do otherwise, I intend to vote the same way I did last time.



RZ20: I think this should be blocked for a fairly mundane yet potentially important reason. There are definite instances in our laws which reference specific imperial units. This bill needs to be presented again with each of these existing laws taken into account and not overridden by blanket.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

May 10, 2017 8:51:02 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Esteemed Mençei,

May I begin these discussions by asking the supporters and/or opponents of the re-run bills to have one last shot of changing my mind?

If not convinced to do otherwise, I intend to vote the same way I did last time.



RZ20: I think this should be blocked for a fairly mundane yet potentially important reason. There are definite instances in our laws which reference specific imperial units. This bill needs to be presented again with each of these existing laws taken into account and not overridden by blanket.

Senator Grischun,
thank you for your reply.

As to RZ 18, as a co-sponsor, I would like to say that adding clarity to the law will not be detrimental, at all. I was surprised to see that it had not passed last time. It merely implements the ruling of the Uppermost Court of Talossa.
>>>The main sponsor of this act, however, is Dame Schivâ.

As to RZ 19, again as co-sponsor, I would like to add that this is a good compromise between an absolute veto power of the Crown, and no veto power at all. I would be for the latter option, but I am okay with compromises, and almost half of our citizens seem not yet ready to do away with actual Powers of the Monarch. Limiting them, however; giving the absolute, and final say over the Law of the Land back to the People, is the aim of this here amendment.
>>>The main sponsor here is Mr Plätschisch.

RZ 20, as well, is sponsored by Mr Plätschisch.

RZ 21 is the brainchild of our Senator from Maricopa, Mr Tresplet.

RZ 22 was written, and clarked, by Mr da Dhi.

If you, Senator Eðo Grischun (or any other Senator for that matter), should find it necessary, and if I hear no objections within 24 hours, I will call upon these gentlemen, and the good Dame, who are not members of this House, to come before the Senäts, and convince us of the necessities of their proposals.

Senator Munditenens Tresplet , you may meanwhile state your case for RZ 21, if you so wish. I, for one, would certainly like to hear a convincing argument, or two, for as it stands, I will vote against it.
Senators, the thread is yours to peruse.

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Senator Grischun,
voi îngrascheléu per voastră c'hontestă.

Över RZ 18, come c'hoghuagnheir, veladreu zirarh qe l’addiziun da c'hlarità als legeux non tischà da thoct ingen gcunsequençù negativă. Esteveu þonestamînt ovripat à vidarh el feblar dad acest amendamaintsch. O emparet cumpla la zheciziun del Cort Pü Înalt.
>>> La ghuagnheiră phrincipal dad acest amendamaintsch, c’e la Dhamă Schivâ.

Över RZ 19, ün altreu fhäts come c'hoghuagnheir, veladreu anotarh q’acest bproxhet, c’e ünă c'hompromiçù teschent el pevarh dad impidamaintsch ausolü, es da l’ausinçù thotal da lhän bpevarh. Éu estadreu per ünă această phaßonçă, mas eu sînt dad acîrd avetz gcompromiçuns; petosch, pü q’el zemi dad ár gcitaxhiens luscha à non estarh preparat per da liverarh-se dels Pevarhen Rexhitais. Masmînt, limitarh-en; zonarh l’ordeu ausolü es final påd els legeux dal tzară al pópul, c’e la thocă dad acest amendamaintsch aicì.
>>> El guagnheir principal aicì, c’e’l S:reu Plätschisch.

RZ 20, c’e ocså propoçat per el S:reu Plätschisch.

RZ 21, c’e l’ideă dad ar Senator da Mharicopa, el S:reu Tresplet.

RZ 22 esteva scriut, es clarqat, per el S:reu da Dhi.

Schi Voi, Senator Grischun (eda ingen tSenator d’álter), en txuxhadra neceßar, es schi non üscüdeu ingen auxheziun da dhîn 24 þorăs, pußidarheu acestilor gcavalairen, es l’estimadă Dhamă, qi os non sînt mîmbreux dad această c'hasă, per àd irh avant del Senäts, es per à comvimçarh-noi da lhors phroxhets.

Senator Tresplet, Voi povetz zesclararh Voastră c'hauçă per RZ 21 àl quand, sch’o Voi piaça. Apartì éu, certanmînt veladreu auscultarh ünă c'huntenziun c'homvimçînd, eda douăs. Qe momenteir, votarheu en àl contra.

Senators, această rhaisnă isch Voastră à pierlegarh.

[Munditenens Tresplet]

This may come as a shock, but I will be voting against RZ21.

I've made all the best arguments I could for the bill, which I still support in principle, and it failed. I don't believe in reClarking bills without a reignited period of discussion and/or some revision. I did reClark this one because of all the other bills that have been reClarked, all of which I will also vote against not merely for the exact same reasons I proffered just a couple months ago, but also because, again, I don't believe that reClarking bills simply because they failed the first or second or third times is the best of reasons to do so. I plan to reClark the HSA every single time someone else reClarks the same bill as long as I am a member of the Ziu.

But as I stated before, any referenda that goes before the people will receive Për votes every single time without fail, hence the original reason I was sponsored the HSA. I would question why it continues to be necessary to even require assent by the people, both because of the rubber stamping and owing to the arguments made against HSA last time around--being that we as representatives best represent the people's wishes, which must logically align with their views on every single issue. Nevertheless, I don't plan to get into a discussion about the merits of the bill, because we've already had this exact same discussion earlier in this term.

[Eðo Grischun]

May 10, 2017 14:50:20 GMT -6 Munditenens Tresplet said:

This may come as a shock, but I will be voting against RZ21.
I've made all the best arguments I could for the bill, which I still support in principle, and it failed.

That's actually very remarkable and rather noble.

You should be given a ribbon for this

I plan to reClark the HSA every single time someone else reClarks the same bill as long as I am a member of the Ziu.

I've thought on this for a mere 20 seconds, but, you know what? I plan on co-sponsoring the HSA every single time someone else reClarks the same bill (same being without fair to major edits - don't just present the same failed bill ... Einstein said something about insanity being repeating the same action over and over and expecting a different result).

May I ask the Senators, what is the Sense of this House on some form of "first and second readings" system? I'm not entirely sure on how it would work, but Bills coming back a second time should 'go through' a different process, eh?

... being that we as representatives best represent the people's wishes, which must logically align with their views on every single issue.

Not every single issue. I am sure we are forgiven for small transgressions, but ultimately if we cock it up we don't get re-elected. That's the theoretical fail-safe.

Nevertheless, I don't plan to get into a discussion about the merits of the bill, because we've already had this exact same discussion earlier in this term.

Heh .. well, thanks for reClarking it all the same I was actually a bit surprised to see this one back again - I'll still be voting NON - but please add me as a co-sponser as a reClarker.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Gentlemen,

I have not heard any objection yet, but do I hear agreement as to the invitation of the original sponsors of these here Bills to this Senate?

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Cavalairen,

non tent auscultat ingen auxheziun txa, mas, ¿auscult-éu consonançă per à pußidarh els guagnheirs orixhinais dad acestilor bproxhets-ci àl Senäts?

[Ián B. Anglatzarâ]

May 11, 2017 4:37:28 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

Gentlemen,

I have not heard any objection yet, but do I hear agreement as to the invitation of the original sponsors of these here Bills to this Senate?

Aye!

[Eðo Grischun]

May 11, 2017 4:37:28 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

Gentlemen,

I have not heard any objection yet, but do I hear agreement as to the invitation of the original sponsors of these here Bills to this Senate?

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Cavalairen,

non tent auscultat ingen auxheziun txa, mas, ¿auscult-éu consonançă per à pußidarh els guagnheirs orixhinais dad acestilor bproxhets-ci àl Senäts?

Aye.

I would like to hear from Dame Shiva if she would kindly accept an invitation to address this House.

I am not in favour of 'summoning' speakers at this time, but an invitation is not opposed.

My first question would be, why the Ziu and why this Bill? If the Courts have made a ruling, and the King refuses to act in accordance with a ruling, then surely this is a problem the Courts should be addressing. Are they unable to enforce their own judgements?

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

May 11, 2017 7:57:57 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

I would like to hear from Dame Shiva if she would kindly accept an invitation to address this House.

I am not in favour of 'summoning' speakers at this time, but an invitation is not opposed.

My first question would be, why the Ziu and why this Bill? If the Courts have made a ruling, and the King refuses to act in accordance with a ruling, then surely this is a problem the Courts should be addressing. Are they unable to enforce their own judgements?

The answer to the last question, obviously, is YES, in the current situation.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Esteemed Dame Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN ,

as grateful as I am for you having chosen to answer our questions, I must reprimand you: I know not what protocol the Cosă follows, but I will not have disorder in this house, where members wait for their turn to speak, with the Lord President―that would be me―giving each member the opportunity to make their voice heard, or otherwise allowing for a general discussion.

Since you are not a member of this House, I would kindly ask you to refrain from commenting until such time as I have officially invited you to honour us with your presence. You will be able to speak shortly.

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Va c'hară Dhamă Schivâ,

ainda q’eu sînt graciouseu qe Voi estetz aicì, eu fost reprimançarh-Voi l’infraziun: non säp qet sînt las reglăs dîn la C'hosă, mas non taltarheu gac'hischăs dîn această C'hasă, dov’els mîmbreux sustiennent àls lors raiăs à parlarh; el Mençei zonînd l’uportunità à c'hadascù mhîmbreu per àd exauzivalescharh lors voces, eda altrămînt permitînd ünă rhaisnă xheneral.

Vïut qe Voi non estetz mîmbră dad această c'hasă, piedadréu Voi, qe, cün vfavour, astersenetz-se da cumentarh txusca qe Voi téu învitat uficialmînt à þonourarh-nhoi cün la Vhoastră phresençù. Vetz pevarh à parlarh enscurtz.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

The Senate of the Kingdom of Talossa
Fiftieth Period of Legislature
–The Lord President–

Be it known unto all Senators of this House,

by the Power vested in me by the members of this House, I declare the motion concerning the invitation of non-members to speak before this House as passed by acclamation. It is therefore my distinct pleasure to invite, welcome, and ask following members of the Cosă to speak about the bills they have submitted to the Fourth Clark of this Legislature Period:

Cosă member Dame Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN

and

Cosă member Mr Ian Plätschisch

and

Cosă member Mr Glüc da Dhi

I ask that members of this House who have questions prepare them, and present them to our guests at will.
Dame Schivâ, Messrs Da Dhi, and Plätschisch, you are welcome to speak about your bills at any time, even without any submitted questions.

Mylady, gentlemen, feel free to begin.

Done under my hand and seal, on this Friday, the Twelfth of May, in the year 2017 of the Common Era, and the XXXVIII. of Talossa’s Independence.
Long live democracy!
Long live Talossa!

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El Senäts del Regipäts Talossan
Simeinçelaiset gCosă
–El Mençei–

Cunvedieu nun à thoct i Senators dad această C'hasă,

qe, pr’els pevarhen zoneschti à mhe per els mîmbreux dad această C'hasă, zesclareu la phaßivă över l’invitaziun da nhon-mhîmbreux à parlarh avant dad această C'hasă come validadă per aclamaziun. Com’acest, c’e va phlaschair articulat àd învitarh, benviénarh, es rogarh els mîmbreux sovînds dal Cosă q’os parladrent dels proxhets qe tiennent înoltrat àl qatorlaiset gClarqeu dad această C'hosă:

Mîmbră dal Cosă Damă Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN

es

Mîmbreu dal Cosă S:reu Glüc da Dhi

es

Mîmbreu dal Cosă S:reu Ian Plätschisch

Mandeu q’els Senators, qi tiennent fragăs, en preparadrent es en presentadrent à nhoschtri gästs eftir bpedit.
Damă Schivâ, S:reux da Dhi, es Plätschisch, estetz els benveneschti à parlarh över Voschtri phroxhets ingenthîmp, mismă sînc vfragăs bpresentadăs.

Va dhómină, vaes cavalairen, ¡auspichetz à phot!

Fäts sub va mhà es tSignhaziun, à’ceastă C'henapură, el Dudeschéu Lhä del Mai, în l’år 2017 da l’Atx Comun, es el XXXVIII. Anno Regni Talossae.
¡Så viva la dhemocraçù!
¡Så viva Talossa!

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

It is with regret that I hereby close the discussion on the Fourth Clark. Farewell to our guests, who have chosen not to speak up, and forget not to get yourself a refreshment from the bar before you go. Thank you, and happy Voting!

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Cün tsaudað’st qe perventüra ferméu această rhaisnă över el Qatorlaiset gClarqeu. Adéu à nhoschtri ghästs, qi non tiennent perstrepeschti, es non oblietz comprarh-se las fuvialăs da l’ustrïă avant da zespartarh. Gras-chias, es ¡glaðlïă Vhotaziun!

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I spoke up; I answered a question, no-one asked any more questions.

[Eðo Grischun]

Many thanks, Esteemed Mencei for your continued hard work.

Thank you Dame Shiva for your time.