Fleshing out of The Under Cabinet & Interior Redesign Act

[Munditenens Tresplet]

When we refer to someone as Deputy Minister of Immigration, we know their full title is Deputy Minister of Interior overseeing Immigration, it's just easier to shorten it. One reason we combined the three ministries into Interior was to simplify things. Titles of deputies aren't included in law anyways, because there is no requirement for any Minister to have a deputy, nor is there a requirement for a Minister to only have a certain amount of deputies, nor is there a requirement that deputies be assigned a certain section of the overall portfolio.

As Interior Minister a couple terms ago, to start with, I had a deputy for Defense, Immigration, and Home Affairs, and I also had a deputy who oversaw all three. The Deputies only have whatever limited purview given to them by the Interior Minister, and the bureaucracy works. The Interior Minister can oversee general policy and participate in cabinet meetings, while the Deputies work on day to day stuff...but there are occasions where the Interior Minister needs to step in for whatever reason and provide direction. This would be more difficult if each were made full cabinet portfolios again, because the only person overseeing them would be the Prime Minister, who has plenty more things to do. Plus, it's questionable why we would need a full cabinet level position for Home Affairs or Defense, whose portfolios don't really have duties that rise to a full Cabinet level.

I would agree that the law needs to be cleaned up so that all references to the Ministers of Defense, Home Affairs, and Immigration better point to the Minister of Interior. But there is a reason we combined the Ministries, and there isn't a need to go back now.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

Feb 2, 2017 18:50:33 GMT -6 Munditenens Tresplet said:

When we refer to someone as Deputy Minister of Immigration, we know their full title is Deputy Minister of Interior overseeing Immigration, it's just easier to shorten it. One reason we combined the three ministries into Interior was to simplify things. Titles of deputies aren't included in law anyways, because there is no requirement for any Minister to have a deputy, nor is there a requirement for a Minister to only have a certain amount of deputies, nor is there a requirement that deputies be assigned a certain section of the overall portfolio.

As Interior Minister a couple terms ago, to start with, I had a deputy for Defense, Immigration, and Home Affairs, and I also had a deputy who oversaw all three. The Deputies only have whatever limited purview given to them by the Interior Minister, and the bureaucracy works. The Interior Minister can oversee general policy and participate in cabinet meetings, while the Deputies work on day to day stuff...but there are occasions where the Interior Minister needs to step in for whatever reason and provide direction. This would be more difficult if each were made full cabinet portfolios again, because the only person overseeing them would be the Prime Minister, who has plenty more things to do. Plus, it's questionable why we would need a full cabinet level position for Home Affairs or Defense, whose portfolios don't really have duties that rise to a full Cabinet level.

I would agree that the law needs to be cleaned up so that all references to the Ministers of Defense, Home Affairs, and Immigration better point to the Minister of Interior. But there is a reason we combined the Ministries, and there isn't a need to go back now.

You misunderstood. I agree that the three positions under the Interior Ministry don't... at the current time... need to be restored to Cabinet level. I'm saying the Bureaucracy needs to be properly established. Either...

A) Minister of the Interior
Deputy Minister of the Interior-Def
Deputy Minister of the Interior-Imm
Deputy Minister of the Interior-HA

B) Minister of the Interior
Deputy Minister of the Interior (opt.)
Secretary of Defence
Secretary of Immigration
Secretary of Home Affairs

Or even...

C) Minister of the Interior
Deputy Minister of the Interior
Associate Minister of the Interior for Defence/Immigration/Home Affairs

There has to be a split in the hierarchy... Deputies don't report to deputies. If you're going to embark on policy writing for a government structure, you have to do it right and not cut corners (or cut & paste).

My personal recommendation is for Deputy Minister of the Interior for (insert), with each heading Bureaus and remaining Political Appointees. If they are actually reduced to Secretaries over Departments, they become non-political jobs filled by the Civil Service Commission.

Honestly, I don't see a reason for a Deputy Minister for the purpose of a Chief of Staff as the Bureaus at this time aren't crazy busy.

[Munditenens Tresplet]

You are correct, I misunderstood you to start with, my apologies.

Now that I have a better grasp on your position, I'll note that these deputy positions are already typically filled on a non-political basis without the need for the Civil Service Commission. That being said, I'm not necessarily opposed to having them filled by the Commission in the future, but calling them anything other than Deputies creates an entirely new subclass, which I think is where a lot of people would have some trouble taking to. It is possible to have Deputies report to other Deputies, because at the end of the day, hierarchy is determined by the Minister. If the Minister says "You report to Deputy X", that's who you report to.