Vote FreeDems - Manifesto

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

A few words from the spectre at the feast: on the necessity of a team.

In the 49th Cosâ election, as then FreeDem leader, I raised a query to the TNC leader about what assurances we could have that his party would be able to enact its manifesto, as the party was pretty much "him" plus a few other less active citizens. Anyone who can be bothered dragging up the thread can verify that cxhn. Itraváilatx hit the roof and got personally offended. I also queried the composition of the RUMP party list - which, as we all sadly remember, included one member who was and still is incarcerated, and the RUMP leadership didn't even know. The amount of oppobrium I got in that scandal was also unpleasant.

Where are the RUMP now? Where are the TNC now? Essentially, they were both "one-person" parties - and when that one person burnt out or found other things to do, they shriveled up and vanished. (Note: of course the RUMP will never truly die as long as they are the party which is happy to act as a sock-puppet for the monarchy. In any half-decent democracy the nominal Seneschál and the vanished Chief of Staff would have been punished at the polls for their anti-democratic stance on the 47RZ28 debacle, but never mind.)

In contrast, the Free Democrats have a team. We have structures. When I burnt out myself, other able Talossans stepped up to fill the void. The ModRads have a team, of course. But their behaviour in the last government formation - going with the anti-democratic RUMP and the evanescent TNC - and their lack of achievement in the GOVERNMENT (not the Ziu) since then speaks to a certain cynicism. I believe that I heard that they thought that the RUMP leadership would be more easy to manipulate than the strong-willed FreeDem team.

The obvious choice for the next Government of Talossa, then, is the party which features both a strong team, and strong principles.

[Tamoran Montagnhard]

Nov 20, 2016 13:54:22 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

Nov 20, 2016 13:18:15 GMT -6 Tamoran Montagnhard said:

And do you think that part-time Talossans will find the motivation to read an e-mail with the whole Clark every month? If the party proposed a newsletter with which topic resume and external link I would agree with tour argument, but not a copy of the Clark.

You're welcome to make recommendations on how the format should be & what the scope of its contents should have, but the inclusion of the clarks & the briefs of specific bills is nonnegotiable.

I am not buying a house or car, we are not in a negociation

[Françal Ian Lux]

Nov 20, 2016 15:12:36 GMT -6 Tamoran Montagnhard said:

Nov 20, 2016 13:54:22 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

You're welcome to make recommendations on how the format should be & what the scope of its contents should have, but the inclusion of the clarks & the briefs of specific bills is nonnegotiable.

I am not buying a house or car, we are not in a negociation. I am not a love consultante and you are not looking for a relationship hint, I do not give recommemdations for someone else. Next time you are not open to read different point of views, just do not express yours.

Excuse me, but did I not just say we're open to recommendations with regards to how this part of the manifesto is to be carried out? How can you then say that I'm closed-minded about other points of view? Also, how can you criticize my stance on negotiating the specifics of this point and then insult my character by accusing me of being closed-minded? You don't want to have an open conversation about the specifics of this plan but then I'm the closed-minded one? Is that your point?

[Tamoran Montagnhard]

Nov 20, 2016 15:22:17 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

Nov 20, 2016 15:12:36 GMT -6 Tamoran Montagnhard said:

I am not buying a house or car, we are not in a negociation. I am not a love consultante and you are not looking for a relationship hint, I do not give recommemdations for someone else. Next time you are not open to read different point of views, just do not express yours.

Excuse me, but did I not just say we're open to recommendations with regards to how this part of the manifesto is to be carried out? How can you then say that I'm closed-minded about other points of view? Also, how can you criticize my stance on negotiating the specifics of this point and then insult my character by accusing me of being closed-minded? You don't want to have an open conversation about the specifics of this plan but then I'm the closed-minded one? Is that your point?

I'm sorry for this message, I noticed my rude speech. I edited my message soon after, but it was late and didn't worth.

[Glüc da Dhi]

Nov 20, 2016 13:42:54 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

I find it odd that one the one hand you vaunt your party's record in the Ziu, insisting that voters will be mightily impressed, and simultaneously denigrate the idea that voters might be vaguely interested in what is done there.

Right, I advertised a good aspect of my party during elections. Must be because Im a narcissist who believes he is so above everyone else... How dare I?

I think many active and inactive voters want good representation and I hope to inform them about how we did that. I dont think anyone will be mightily impressed, they certainly shouldnt be. Rather it should be normal that parties represent their voters in the Ziu.

I also dont think all voters are disinterested, though certainly not everyone is equally interested in every aspect of Talossa.

When's your party leader showing up?

Well he made a great post here: talossa.proboards.com/thread/11844/10-good-reasons-vote-mrpt?page=1&scrollTo=148486.
And before that he organised our convention here: modrads.proboards.com/

[Glüc da Dhi]

Nov 20, 2016 13:52:33 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

Thats an interesting question. None of your business is my answer. Is there a quota for bugging complete strangers on the internet that I have to fill?

That's fine, you don't have to tell me (though now it's suddenly bugging?) and theres no obligation or quota for anything. Everyone has a different Talossan experience. I asked apparently discussing concerns about specific policy and actually getting some debate going is a reason to accuse me of having given up about activity in Talossa and complacency, which is very unfair, but thankfully most who know me will also know its untrue. I know damn well more should be done to engage citizens, as politicians, but outside politics, as a community as well. And I also know that I fall short sometimes, but at least I keep trying. I do actually occasionally chat with various inactive and new citizens, outside election season as well and I know its hard to get people interested. (In fact, its sometimes even difficult to get MCs interested). That certainly doesnt mean Im right about this issue or about anything, but you could have assumed I had a valid concern even if you disagreed with it, rather than assuming it's because I dont care about making Talossa better.

[Inxheneu Crova]

The question does not lie in who is the best missionary for Talossa. There's little point in proselytising if there's nothing to do or see when one does check out the Kingdom. This is what I hope all the parties can address in this election.

It was unfair of me to call you out individually - because I know you are a committed Talossan, and a genuinely nice person, so I apologise for that. This isn't a question of individuals - there's no man or woman on a white horse who can personally make Talossa fun and interesting again. Its certainly not me!

And contrary to what was said in the last election, it clearly isn't a straightforward matter of just trying harder- we saw this with the present government, whose impetus ran out very quickly. And honestly I fear that electoral reform and other legal aspects your party focuses on, whatever its many merits in the abstract, isn't addressing this.

The FreeDems may be wrong or right in our answers (we're still right about the Clark! ;-)), but I am convinced that we are asking the right questions of ourselves and of the country - how we can get stronger as a country, and how we can generate some excitement among our population.

We hope the other parties will join us in this, but I'm sorry to say that I don't see a lot of evidence so far. Please prove me wrong!

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 20, 2016 13:54:22 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

Nov 20, 2016 13:18:15 GMT -6 Tamoran Montagnhard said:

And do you think that part-time Talossans will find the motivation to read an e-mail with the whole Clark every month? If the party proposed a newsletter with which topic resume and external link I would agree with tour argument, but not a copy of the Clark.

You're welcome to make recommendations on how the format should be & what the scope of its contents should have, but the inclusion of the clarks & the briefs of specific bills is nonnegotiable.

I understand what you mean, but it is still rather presumptuous of you to declare what aspects of the bill are and are not negotiable when you don't even know how many seats your party will have.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Nov 20, 2016 13:52:33 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

Nov 20, 2016 12:18:31 GMT -6 Glüc da Dhi said:

To just one more question before I go. S;reu Crova, how often do you talk with inactive citizens outside your direct circle of friends, but new citizens as well. I dont mean send your political propaganda, but you know, just chat?

I can only assume the "political propaganda" is a reference to ETT. The ModRads have had no reason to complain about the generous coverage they have received its columns, including your recent Congress.

I can't speak for Gluc, but I highly doubt he was speaking of ETT.  I personally love reading the articles.

[Lüc da Schir]

Nov 20, 2016 13:42:54 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

When's your party leader showing up?

So if I do all the work the MRPT is a one man party; if I coordinate our campaign, talk with other citizens, take care of our outreach efforts, chair an entire Congress (did you remember that? the one you actually spoke for?), it's "when am I showing up".

It's actually very positive IMO that Glüc, Alex, Ian, Epic and other ModRads are active on Witt at the moment. Somehow though it's totally fine if Miestra and Françal return, not so much if the MRPT's public campaigning is a shared effort rather than the party leader dictating everything.

BTW, while the topic is "your party leader", what's the deal with Dien being your leader but not supporting key pieces of the FreeDem platform like a Real Cosa and mandatory candidates' lists? I assume you as a party are somehow okay with that, but do your voters know?

[Lüc da Schir]

And re. ETT, I don't personally think of it as your "propaganda". I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your pieces of journalism, Inxheneu, and I deeply regret that (unless proven wrong) impartial, nonpartisan journalism in Talossa will be no more with you joining a political party.

[Inxheneu Crova]

Nov 21, 2016 9:10:45 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

Nov 20, 2016 13:42:54 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

When's your party leader showing up?

So if I do all the work the MRPT is a one man party; if I coordinate our campaign, talk with other citizens, take care of our outreach efforts, chair an entire Congress (did you remember that? the one you actually spoke for?), it's "when am I showing up".

Oh I was just being cranky. It happens, and it was a cheap shot which I regret, because I am constantly impressed at your level of political organisation. But...its a fair question to ask what you have been doing to apply that talent *as Distain* for the past term, isn't it?

BTW, while the topic is "your party leader", what's the deal with Dien being your leader but not supporting key pieces of the FreeDem platform like a Real Cosa and mandatory candidates' lists? I assume you as a party are somehow okay with that, but do your voters know?

The deliberately ambiguous stance of the FreeDems on constitutional issues is well known at this stage. The point of the party is to federate reform-minded, progressive people and not trip up over details in the short term. So even though we are not all on the same page, we don't believe that we should therefore throw away the book.

Its true to say that the subject of the ideal size of the Cosa has not come up in our discussions so far this election. That's because an ideal electoral system, on which opinions may vary, isn't much good without voters to use it. Thats what we're worried about, and that's what we hope to have a crack at after this election.

[Françal Ian Lux]

Nov 21, 2016 8:58:10 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

Nov 20, 2016 13:54:22 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

You're welcome to make recommendations on how the format should be & what the scope of its contents should have, but the inclusion of the clarks & the briefs of specific bills is nonnegotiable.

I understand what you mean, but it is still rather presumptuous of you to declare what aspects of the bill are and are not negotiable when you don't even know how many seats your party will have.

I don't quite understand your argument here. Are you suggesting I shouldn't stand by my party's proposals and declare it nonnegotiable just because we're not Government? Is this not our Manifesto thread? What we have presented here is what we intend to do if we are to form Government. Our intentions aren't dependent on whether or not we gain the majority. The policies presented here are things we intend to carry out completely, but, like I said, the details that go into making these proposals into legislation is, of course, something we will need to hash out. 

[Ian Plätschisch]

OK, so, I didn't have my computer all day yesterday, so there are some things I need to address.

First of all, does everyone remember this cartoon of Dama Miestrâ's?

The FreeDems lambasted the RUMP last term for promising to return to activity once they formed a government.  Now, most of the FreeDems seem to be promising to return to activity in much the same fashion.

Now, I completely understand that Talossans are not able to be active all of the time.

Did the government of the 49th Cosa promise too much and then drop off in activity?

Yes.

Did I personally, as Minister of STUFF, promise too much and then drop off in activity?

Sadly, yes.

But, for a party which is campaigning of the principle of being the only party that can fully staff a functioning government that won't experience a drop-off in activity, there is simply no evidence anywhere that the FreeDems will be able to do so.  The FreeDems apparently believe themselves immune to the bug of inactivity (and over-promising, according to their manifesto), but if the government of the 48th Cosa and the recent inactivity of FreeDems is any clue, the Free Democrats of Talossa are not immune and it is somewhat misleading to claim the contrary.

The idea that the government, any government, could cure Talossan inactivity is fundamentally flawed, and demonstrates the misconception that we all fall into.  As was recently pointed out in this thread;

Nov 20, 2016 11:20:35 GMT -6 Inxheneu Crova said:

Talossa is not a law book with attached discussion forum. It is a country, and a community.

Increasing activity cannot be achieved through more legislation, more cabinet posts, or even a government-run National Dialogue. Activity can only be increased through non-political means, means like the Language, Wargaming, Music, Press, and pointless but entertaining threads in the Chatroom.  Talossa has all of these at her disposal, but, mea culpa, none of them are as fully developed as they could and should be.

The members of any government that do not have anything non-political to do will inevitably lose activity, as has been demonstrated time and time again.  Even if a government attempts to create non-political outlets, any such outlets would be bogged down by bureaucracy and fizzle out once the Minister responsible lost interest.  Non-political activities need to be led by citizens in their private capacity who are truly interested in what they are doing, rather than by public officials who are only doing it because a higher-up told them to find ways to increase activity.  This leads me to some relevant points in the MRPT Manifesto:

The government should not try to do what Talossans can do themselves, but instead stimulate private initiative.

In most cases, the Government should facilitate and support cultural projects, rather than lead or own them.

When a project can be completed without any new legislation, it should generally be completed without any new legislation.

This is why I am opposed to the monthly Clark report.  By sending each citizen a political mailer every month, we in effect tell inactive citizens who receive the mailer that Talossa is a place reserved for political activity, and if you don't like politics, then there is no need for you to come back.  This is opposite of the message we should be sending; that Talossa is a place for both political and non-political activity, and you are welcome to engage in either as you see fit.

Non-political activities should be as free from government intervention as practical, as unnecessary government intervention tends to turn people off.


TL;DR The Free Democrats promise more bureaucracy, which they claim will increase activity.  Bureaucracy never increases activity.

[Françal Ian Lux]

What we are proposing as a party is very simple: Consistent and responsible governing. Whatever it is we must do to AT LEAST make the government running again, we will do. This is a promise none of the other parties can do or be trusted to do, frankly.