Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
|
Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 8, 2016 16:48:41 GMT -6
The provision I quoted is from el Lexhatx, which is our compiled legal code. There are no other stand-alone statutes, since all prior ones were repealed and no new ones have been passed since el Lexhatx was passed, two years ago. You can find our legal code, updated by the Royal Scribery and certified accurate, here at Lex.F.17. Does this mean that the laws as passed have "softly and silently" been mutated to the now recorded form? If so, these changes were not made clear, and - despite the passing of the all-encompasing bill - the certification of accuracy was incorrect. We have to think about this very carefully.6RC37 was explicitly repealed by el Lexhatx, so I don't see how a repealed law could take precedence over an active law.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 8, 2016 17:26:29 GMT -6
The provision I quoted is from el Lexhatx, which is our compiled legal code. There are no other stand-alone statutes, since all prior ones were repealed and no new ones have been passed since el Lexhatx was passed, two years ago. You can find our legal code, updated by the Royal Scribery and certified accurate, here at Lex.F.17. Does this mean that the laws as passed have "softly and silently" been mutated to the now recorded form? If so, these changes were not made clear, and - despite the passing of the all-encompasing bill - the certification of accuracy was incorrect. We have to think about this very carefully.No, the changes occurred as part of putting the bill in the legal code, along with hundreds of other bills. Then the resulting legal code was examined by the Ziu and passed unanimously in both houses. I do admire your fervent defense of your preferred outcome, though! I honestly can say that I have never seen anyone so passionately devoted to a date format.
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 9, 2016 1:20:46 GMT -6
...I do admire your fervent defense of your preferred outcome, though! I honestly can say that I have never seen anyone so passionately devoted to a date format. I am not passionately devoted to a date format: I am passionately devoted to standards. You can take standards or you can leave them: but if you leave them then you are confining yourself to the narrow present, and not looking to the future. And, in this case, not looking to the vast majority of the world that (a) does not use the USA format, and (b) thinks it is "weird" (not my words, but a quote).
Experience - the world's experience - shows that standards are best.
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 9, 2016 1:25:46 GMT -6
...No, the changes occurred as part of putting the bill in the legal code, along with hundreds of other bills. Then the resulting legal code was examined by the Ziu and passed unanimously in both houses.... If that is (now) the law, then that is the law. But it is clear that the Ziu made a mistake: the text cannot have, in fact, been examined in detail, or this change (and possibly others - I don't know, I shall have to check) would not have gone through on the nod. This particular example is that of a change in the meaning of the law that was not specifically drawn to the Ziu's attention, except in the (huge!) text of the totality of the law.
It may be Legal, but it is not Just.
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 9, 2016 1:58:13 GMT -6
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 9, 2016 16:55:31 GMT -6
...The choice of dd-mmm-yyyy/t (apparently also called RFC 5322, if you want a name from a standards body) has the benefit of confusing no one at all, whereas if we choose ISO 8601 then we will confuse our large American-Talossan population... Parenthetical comment: RFC 5322 is a Request For Comment, and not a standard. It makes, internally, reference to ANSI documents. ANSI standards are American (strictly, USA - not American) standards. ISO gives us International standards. All of the other easily-found references which I have quoted give good arguments for using ISO. One of the (powerful) arguments for ISO is that dd-mmm-yyyy/t is confusing to many, and also refers back to some specific human language (English or French or Chinese or Talossan...). I know it's hard to recognise it, but 95% of us do not believe that the USA is the centre of the world.
|
|
|
Post by Danihel Txechescu on May 9, 2016 19:23:33 GMT -6
The words "For example" indicate that all dates must be fashioned that way. Is that right? I understand that as a good example on how to comply by "[citing] the year in both the Christian and Talossan form." The gist there is that both year formats must be used, not how to express the date. Then, on the other hand, if the law is to use that specific format, then there is no room to argue -- it should be: "Monday, May 1st, 2016/XXXVII" on the ID cards and everywhere else.
|
|
Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
|
Post by Glüc da Dhi on May 10, 2016 8:31:46 GMT -6
I'm not an American, but I don't remember ever using YYYY-MM-DD.
My Dutch ID card says 01 JUL/JUL 2025 (That's the expiry date obviously, but my date of birth is in the same format. I'm guessing the JUL/JUL is Dutch/English)
Looks practical enough to me.
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 11, 2016 7:32:59 GMT -6
I'm not an American, but I don't remember ever using YYYY-MM-DD. My Dutch ID card says 01 JUL/JUL 2025 (That's the expiry date obviously, but my date of birth is in the same format. I'm guessing the JUL/JUL is Dutch/English) Looks practical enough to me. No - it's Dutch/French... and why French is the diplomatic, and hence European Passport, standard is another (historic) question! I'm not a USA person, nor American, either - and YYYY-MM-DD is used frequently on documents that have international circulation: I have seen it frequently.
|
|
Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
|
Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 11, 2016 7:35:38 GMT -6
... Then, on the other hand, if the law is to use that specific format, then there is no room to argue -- it should be: "Monday, May 1st, 2016/XXXVII" on the ID cards and everywhere else. I am currently working on a document to show that this is not the law. I anticipate publishing it by the end of next week.
|
|
|
Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on May 11, 2016 7:51:45 GMT -6
I'm not an American, but I don't remember ever using YYYY-MM-DD. My Dutch ID card says 01 JUL/JUL 2025 (That's the expiry date obviously, but my date of birth is in the same format. I'm guessing the JUL/JUL is Dutch/English) Looks practical enough to me. No - it's Dutch/French... and why French is the diplomatic, and hence European Passport, standard is another (historic) question! I'm not a USA person, nor American, either - and YYYY-MM-DD is used frequently on documents that have international circulation: I have seen it frequently.
I am not American either and YYYY-MM-DD is definitely what I am used to.
|
|
Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
|
Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on May 11, 2016 8:48:17 GMT -6
Interesting. Are you sure? French for "July" is juillet, which is normally abbreviated juil or juill.
|
|
|
Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on May 12, 2016 2:59:55 GMT -6
I am actually pretty sure that it is Dutch/English, compare this picture where August is abbreviated as AUG both times, and the French word for August is août.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 12, 2016 12:00:11 GMT -6
Does anyone -- he says with bated breath -- have any suggestions or feedback about the ID cards or their design that is not focused on the date? More discussion on that point is certainly welcome, but I'd also like to give an opportunity for anyone with other criticism or ideas about a different aspect of the project.
|
|
|
Post by Iason Bitxichë Taiwos on May 12, 2016 16:15:10 GMT -6
Will this be an ongoing project? As Admiral of the Talossan Navy (he says, with unfounded authority), I'd like maybe an indication of my status, Admiral Iason Taiwos on it,maybe like the Ministry of Defences' logo on it somewhere. (Hey, maybe it'll impress girls I meet at the bar.) Should future accusations of Ignaval behavior be hurled at me, and I lose my commission, will it be possible to get a future ID with another status? (Ignaval! Ha! How do you like that for a neologism?) In other words, will the ID cards allow for putting our current position in Talossa on it? (You like this card, baby? Hell, I gotta drawer full of them. See this one? That was from when I was Maestro of Benito...for the third time...)
|
|