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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 14:58:24 GMT -6
Fair enough. I'm happy to continue the dialogue at any time.
I'll move on to considering the agreement itself.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 16:06:24 GMT -6
Well, here is my suggested form of the agreement. I changed the time for veto back to a fortnight, since you guys seem to think that's better.
A. The Province of Maritiimi-Maxhestic of the Kingdom of Talossa and the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg of the same do hereby form a political and legal compact of cooperation for the purposes of creating a joint and equitable political and legal union. This union shall henceforth be known as the Confederated Provinces of Maritiimi, Vuode, Maxhestic, and Dandenburg.
B. This agreement does not remove or alter the sovereign rights or authority of either the Province of Maritiimi-Maxhestic or the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg as granted by the 1997 Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa. Both provinces shall retain their individual identity, character, culture, and other distinctive aspects, and it is affirmed that this agreement is exclusively an instrument of local governance freely contracted by both provinces.
C. This agreement shall provide for the creation of an assembly composed of members representing both provinces, unified in one legislative and executive body that shall be known as the Joint Assembly of the Confederation of Maritiimi, Vuode, Maxhestic, and Dandenburg.
D. The exact procedures for initial election to the Joint Assembly shall be determined by mutual agreement of the individual legislatures of the Province of Maritiimi-Maxhestic and the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg. Thereafter, the Joint Assembly shall establish and maintain its own election procedures.
E. All laws and regulations enacted by the Joint Assembly shall ensure equal treatment for all citizens.
F. No laws or regulations enacted by the Joint Assembly shall contradict any part of the 1997 Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa, or else same laws and regulations shall be voided to the extent of the contradiction.
G. In addition to those representatives elected to the Joint Assembly, both Provinces shall at the same time each independently select a Tribune of Equity, charged with ensuring the just and fair representation of their Province and safeguarding the rights of their respective citizenry. These Tribunes shall each separately have the power to veto any law or regulation enacted by the Joint Assembly within a fortnight of its passage. Such a veto may only be overturned if the Joint Assembly passes the same law or regulation with a supermajority of votes.
H. This union shall never restrict freedom of trade, navigation, or movement between the individual and sovereign provinces of Maritiimi-Maxhestic, and Vuode.
I. This treaty shall remain in effect in perpetuity in so long as the citizenry of both provinces so wish. This treaty may be rescinded by popular referendum by a supermajority of either province at any stage, without prejudice nor penalty nor ill-will.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Apr 15, 2016 16:32:57 GMT -6
Thank you for clarifying, good s:reu. However, echoing the question of the Chief of Staff, why not simply call it an agreement? Actually, I misinterpreted what you said. We don't want the agreement to end this term
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Post by Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo on Apr 15, 2016 16:52:53 GMT -6
Thank you for clarifying, good s:reu. However, echoing the question of the Chief of Staff, why not simply call it an agreement? Actually, I misinterpreted what you said. We don't want the agreement to end this term Senator Grischun and I already talked about it. The agreement will not be ending this term, and it may take another Cosa (or two) to get Vuode-Dandeburg in order. I'm not comfortable about the fact that this political union will not be co-terminus with the current government; but I concede, if only to save Vuode-Dandeburg from further inactivity and eventual deterioration. The agreement is not absolutely permanent - VD or M-M may pull out of the agreement without penalty, and revert at any time - but it is not a long-term solution.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 16:55:43 GMT -6
Honestly, Chirbi, I have no idea where this thing is going to end up. It might be bust and we pull out after one term. We might love it and change nothing for ten terms. Or it might get even weirder, like with the two provinces separating their legislatures but having a joint executive!
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Post by Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo on Apr 15, 2016 17:04:50 GMT -6
...Or it might get even weirder, like with the two provinces separating their legislatures but having a joint executive! Which, in my opinion, may just be a better idea. (However, Vuode-Dandeburg currently doesn't have the strength of numbers to go through with that proposal.)
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 17:08:09 GMT -6
Well, we'll see what happens.
NOTE: It is very difficult not to make jokes about permanently catching VD.
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Post by Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo on Apr 15, 2016 17:25:55 GMT -6
NOTE: It is very difficult not to make jokes about permanently catching VD. I gather that. Tsk, tsk. Maybe we should also adopt a hyphen for the shorthand of the province's name, V-D. M-M; ergo, V-D.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 17:32:05 GMT -6
Makes sense to me.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Apr 15, 2016 17:34:38 GMT -6
I agree with AD on allowing tribunes to veto amendments and tribune election policies. Indeed, I misread Epics proposal as granting an absolute veto to the tribunes on those topics!
I also agree with the rest of the suggestions
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Apr 15, 2016 17:36:05 GMT -6
Well, we'll see what happens. NOTE: It is very difficult not to make jokes about permanently catching VD. Interesting and funny side story... On the night that I posted the "open letter" making the initial proposals, I also made a recording by webcam reading the letter and making point by point supporting arguments. I didn't post the video, because at one point I inadvertently voiced a similar "VD" innuendo. The video ends with me rolling about my couch in a fit of laughter.
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Üc R. Tärfâ
Talossan since 3-8-2005
Deputy Fiôván Secretary of State
Posts: 760
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Post by Üc R. Tärfâ on Apr 15, 2016 19:30:43 GMT -6
I've spent the last three hours writing a long response. It's gone
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 15, 2016 19:33:16 GMT -6
Wow, that sucks. Yikes. I have on the "drafts" feature for this reason. It's a setting on your profile under "Settings" that automatically and regularly saves a post in progress. Not helpful now, I know, but might stop this from happening again someday.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Apr 15, 2016 19:38:34 GMT -6
Wow, that sucks. Yikes. I have on the "drafts" feature for this reason. It's a setting on your profile under "Settings" that automatically and regularly saves a post in progress. Not helpful now, I know, but might stop this from happening again someday. That has happened to me a couple of times (though not a three hour post), thanks for telling me about that feature!
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Üc R. Tärfâ
Talossan since 3-8-2005
Deputy Fiôván Secretary of State
Posts: 760
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Post by Üc R. Tärfâ on Apr 16, 2016 0:19:20 GMT -6
I have this setting enabled. There's a place where I could find saved data? I was writing on mobile, and I erronously opened in another page the same thread in "quote" mode to copy something and when I ot back to the page I was writing on, it automatically refreshed it, and I lost the data. And beeing on mobile I didn't see the pop-up "you are already replying to this thread"
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