Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Dec 12, 2015 19:31:13 GMT -6
The national language is an issue of the highest constitutional importance, IMHO. Especially for Talossa. Almost every Constitution in the world - with outliers such as the United States - agrees. Ok. You have convinced me on the language and the flag. But I still think we should remove the Declaration of Independence, and the rest of Article II I initially said to move.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 12, 2015 19:32:16 GMT -6
How would you respond to Ventrútx's arguments on the Declaration?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Dec 12, 2015 19:42:37 GMT -6
How would you respond to Ventrútx's arguments on the Declaration? I already did Think of what a constitution really is though. It is how the government is supposed to be set up. So, I don't think it makes sense to have the Declaration of Independence in it. I think it's inclusion in the Constitution actually detracts from its grandeur (which it certainly does have, it created Talossa!), which would be more noticeable if it were separated. In addition, changing the location of the Declaration has no bearing on it's history; the wording and the effect is still the same.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 13, 2015 2:09:02 GMT -6
Sir C. M. Siervicül, can you confirm you accept your nomination as Commission Chair? (And thus the responsibility to make sure we get a report in by March 1?) First, my apologies for not responding earlier. I've been out of town for a week with limited Internet access. I'm honoured by the nomination, but don't feel that I'd be able to devote adequate attention to the job at this point. I'll be traveling for another week plus later this month, and my time available for Talossa may, unfortunately, be increasingly limited after that. I started a new job a few weeks ago, and we're expecting a Dandelion in May.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Dec 13, 2015 10:12:58 GMT -6
If no one else steps up, I will volunteer to chair the commission.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 13, 2015 12:11:39 GMT -6
As long as that has consent from the RUMP and Royal appointees - don't want anyone yelling about BIAS and MIESTRA'S COMMISSION again.
Can we have a time frame for getting through the articles? We could debate 2 months on Title II alone.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Dec 13, 2015 13:37:19 GMT -6
I feel uncomfortable trying to rush through Articles if we aren't finished; this is the nation's highest law we are talking about.
Now that I think about it, we may need another extension later on. Even if we spend only one week per Article, it would take nearly 5 months.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Dec 13, 2015 17:38:39 GMT -6
I feel uncomfortable trying to rush through Articles if we aren't finished; this is the nation's highest law we are talking about. Now that I think about it, we may need another extension later on. Even if we spend only one week per Article, it would take nearly 5 months. We will move as deliberately as we need to. If we need more time I am sure whomever is the next Seneschal will grant us that time. I would also suggest that we not wait idly while members who are not communicating with us are off somewhere doing something else. I would personally think that when each new article is brought up, a timeline is imposed that if there is no new discussion/revisions/ideas/etc. we move on to the next without waiting for the stragglers who aren't anywhere to be seen (I would run this much the same as I would my courtroom, in other words).
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Dec 13, 2015 20:19:14 GMT -6
If no one else steps up, I will volunteer to chair the commission. No complaints here.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on Dec 13, 2015 20:48:38 GMT -6
The Declaration of Independence could be removed from the OrgLaw and formed into a document in its own right.
I would be in favour of removing Art II Sec 1, it has no "real" function in the OrgLaw and would be better suited in a preamble than a actual article.
Section 2 is fine, just someone check the Talossan spelling is correct. Though it could be re-worded slightly better along the lines of: "The name of the State, in Talossan, is El Regipäts Talossán and in English, The Kingdom of Talossa or in short "Talossa""
Section 3 could be re-worded slightly better to give a clearer understanding of what and where the Talossan territory is, which is easier to read and understand. The text towards the end can be removed.
Section 4, could be included into Section 3.
Section 5, replace "the Kingdom" with "Talossa", as the Kingdom has no definition in the OrgLaw whereas Talossa does in Section 2 above. Maybe a line to say where the capital is?
Section 6, keep the first sentence, the later parts can be moved to El Lex. Also don't like the idea of a private council having full control over what is essentially the national language, therefore CUG should be established and regulated by law as a public body. The structure doesn't need to change but accountability does.
Section 7, remove the 2nd sentence as it's more a cultural piece of information, than something which should be enforced by the OrgLaw.
Section 8, perhaps this could be tidied up a bit?
Section 9, amended to read "The National Anthem of Talossa is "Chirluschâ àl Glheþ." Its English translation, "Stand Tall, Talossans," shall have equal legal status." The later parts deleted and formalised into El Lex.
Section 10, fine as it is.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 15, 2015 12:37:59 GMT -6
So do we need to vote on the various clauses of Title II individually?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Dec 15, 2015 14:46:33 GMT -6
So do we need to vote on the various clauses of Title II individually? I suppose so. But, we would have to have 3 options for each (leave as is, reword, or remove completely).
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 18, 2015 23:06:58 GMT -6
Mr Chair, want to give us some direction on the way forward?
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Dec 19, 2015 9:50:58 GMT -6
The issue here is we have a fully appointed commission and we have yet to hear a single word from some of the duly appointed members. Therefore, I propose that we will start voting on each section of Article II. I will set a 3 day voting timeline for each vote and whomever votes will be counted. Non-voting is an abstention and won't be counted.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Dec 19, 2015 14:29:47 GMT -6
Hmmm. I agree with Dama Litz on II.6 - keep half and toss half - so how would a Për/Contrâ vote deal with that?
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