Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on May 11, 2017 7:37:06 GMT -6
Anyway.. the unit of currency is (or was) pegged to the price of one pint of Miller Ale as priced at Sir Fritz's Bar. Which, sadly, is no longer owned by Sir Fritz. Not is Sir Fritz any longer a Talossan citizen.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 11, 2017 7:48:31 GMT -6
Anyway.. the unit of currency is (or was) pegged to the price of one pint of Miller Ale as priced at Sir Fritz's Bar. Which, sadly, is no longer owned by Sir Fritz. Not is Sir Fritz any longer a Talossan citizen. I hadn't kept up to date on Fritz in afraid. I'm assuming the thing about the pint is no longer relevant then? (Nb 1. I will go through the code and Org law tonight. If I can't find any other instances of Imperial being in law, then the easy conversions act isn't a problem). (Nb 2. Justice Tamoran, along with others, has made comments regarding the way we amend and repeal laws. The overwrite and delete method is causing confusion when it comes to remembering an old law that used to exist as we are not able to find it, and there isn't an easy way to quickly see if such a law has been changed or if the researcher is simply losing their marbles.)
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 12, 2017 8:27:29 GMT -6
Which, sadly, is no longer owned by Sir Fritz. Not is Sir Fritz any longer a Talossan citizen. I hadn't kept up to date on Fritz in afraid. I'm assuming the thing about the pint is no longer relevant then? .... Oh, the pint is perfectly OK - even in the Metric system - but only as the definition of an independent unit of measure - in this case, the currency. Degrees F started off (but then got tampered with!) based on the temperature of the human body (100), and the temperature of salt-water freezing (0)... both of which were wrong. Degrees C were related to the boiling and freezing points of water (a very non-Metric substance) under certain specific conditions (now it's just to the triple-point of water - still a non-Metric entity!). So the Sir Fritz Pint is a perfectly good primary unit of measure of currency. We can, if we wish, indicate the relationship between the SirFritzPint and the Litre... but then we would have to agree as to whether there are 16 or 20 fluid ounces in a pint. You see, Imperial measures are not the same on the two sides of the Atlantic. Metric measures are.
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Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN
Puisne Justice; Chancellor of the Royal Talossan Bar; Cunstaval to Florencia
Dame & Former Seneschal
Posts: 1,157
Talossan Since: 4-5-2010
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on May 12, 2017 10:09:57 GMT -6
Which, sadly, is no longer owned by Sir Fritz. Not is Sir Fritz any longer a Talossan citizen. I hadn't kept up to date on Fritz in afraid. I'm assuming the thing about the pint is no longer relevant then? (Nb 1. I will go through the code and Org law tonight. If I can't find any other instances of Imperial being in law, then the easy conversions act isn't a problem). (Nb 2. Justice Tamoran, along with others, has made comments regarding the way we amend and repeal laws. The overwrite and delete method is causing confusion when it comes to remembering an old law that used to exist as we are not able to find it, and there isn't an easy way to quickly see if such a law has been changed or if the researcher is simply losing their marbles.) The pint is no longer relevant, the Bent is now fixed to $0.025 in the currency of the United States of America. (46RZ20 being the amending bill)
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 13, 2017 3:26:19 GMT -6
Are we missing a beat here? Justice Tamoran makes me wonder if this Bill would be better being fleshed out into a full Talossan Weights and Measures Act.
I'm going to vote PER on this one actually.
I also ask the author if he would be willing to expand the scope of work on this and work with me after the Clark on a fully-fledged and more detailed, modern Talossan Weights and Measures Bill?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 13, 2017 7:22:34 GMT -6
Are we missing a beat here? Justice Tamoran makes me wonder if this Bill would be better being fleshed out into a full Talossan Weights and Measures Act. I'm going to vote PER on this one actually. I also ask the author if he would be willing to expand the scope of work on this and work with me after the Clark on a fully-fledged and more detailed, modern Talossan Weights and Measures Bill? I would be glad to. What do you have in mind?
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Owen Edwards
Puisne Justice
Posts: 1,400
Talossan Since: 12-8-2007
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Post by Owen Edwards on May 20, 2017 12:59:44 GMT -6
Boo to metric, at least for people.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on May 20, 2017 13:41:04 GMT -6
Boo to metric, at least for people. After helping put a slip yoke eliminator on a transfer case for a Jeep, which required removing the drive shaft S, removing the (heavy) transfer case, opening it up (removing many bolts along the way), replacing a bell housing on there, and doing the entire thing in reverse again, I can say that not only is metric easier to understand, but it also helps to have an international standard of measurement. Besides, fractions are hard. IT'S MY CAKE NOW! *NOM NOM NOM*
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Owen Edwards
Puisne Justice
Posts: 1,400
Talossan Since: 12-8-2007
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Post by Owen Edwards on May 20, 2017 18:34:34 GMT -6
Easier to understand for whom? Is ease of use the only relevant category?
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on May 20, 2017 18:41:49 GMT -6
Imperial is the easier system to understand. Metric may be fine for scientific purposes, but if you need to know the size of an object without getting out a ruler, it's much easier to think in terms of Imperial units. Hold out two hands, palms up facing each other. That's roughly a foot. Make your thumb and index finger parallel to each other. That's an inch. What's the temperature outside? With Imperial, it's between 0-100 degrees F. With Celsius, it's between -17 and 37 degrees, and decimal places get relied upon a lot more. If you're cooking something, cups, quarts, and gallons are much easier than liters and milliliters.
Imperial is better for everyday life. Not to mention it's the primary system of measurement for Talossan cestoûrs.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on May 21, 2017 10:42:05 GMT -6
But that's the point: the Imperial system is based on arbitrary measures of people's body parts that happened to be convenient at the time they were codified. That may have suited people living a medieval village in rural England, but it doesn't help us now. It's much easier to convert between different measures in metric because 1. different scales of the same type of measurement are achieved by adding or removing 0's, and 2. converting between types of measurement can be done using water (1 cubic centimeter of water = one milliliter of water = one gram in mass of water) or simple, easy-to-memorize-if-you-try equations (e.g. F = ma, N {kg*m/s^2} = kg * m/s^2) allowing for derived units like newtons of force.
Meanwhile, in the Imperial system, just to get different scales of the same measurement, like length, say you start at inches. You gotta remember "Okay, twelve inches in a foot, three feet in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile, something like 6 trillion miles in a light-year..."
BTW, can someone please get Anglatzarâ or someone with his abilities on? My dad wants to become a citizen and his account hasn't been approved.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 21, 2017 10:51:54 GMT -6
BTW, can someone please get Anglatzarâ or someone with his abilities on? My dad wants to become a citizen and his account hasn't been approved. Try tagging him ( Ián B. Anglatzarâ) or starting a thread on Wittenberg. I'm glad to hear he wants to be a citizen!
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on May 21, 2017 14:35:02 GMT -6
But that's the point: the Imperial system is based on arbitrary measures of people's body parts that happened to be convenient at the time they were codified. That may have suited people living a medieval village in rural England, but it doesn't help us now. I disagree entirely. It is absolutely easier to use the Imperial system than it is the metric system. Sure, the whole base unit system might seem easier to remember than 12 inches in a foot, etc., but try asking some random person on the street in the United States some simple question like how many millimeters there are in a meter, then ask them how many inches are in a yard. The fact is, people will much more easily grasp and remember what they are taught from a young age, regardless of what system it is. But ease of use still lies with the Imperial system, because again, it's much more easy to determine things based on those "arbitrary" measurements you mention than it is to guess off hand the measurement in a metric unit. (By the way, referring back to the "arbitrary" nature of its history doesn't negate its contemporary ease of use.) The people who need to use the metric system in the United States for their careers learn it. The people who don't need to use it don't need it. Cestoûrs use Imperial. Talossan law codifies Wisconsin law. Imperial is not only easier for everyday, but it's also used more everyday in Milwaukee. This bill, Hoppered two years ago, is still unnecessary, and if you ask me, is just a way to take another swipe at the "American" way of doing things. Interesting post here on the subject.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 22, 2017 2:31:30 GMT -6
The people who need to use the metric system in the United States for their careers learn it. The people who don't need to use it don't need it. Cestoûrs use Imperial. Talossan law codifies Wisconsin law. Imperial is not only easier for everyday, but it's also used more everyday in Milwaukee. This bill, Hoppered two years ago, is still unnecessary, and if you ask me, is just a way to take another swipe at the "American" way of doing things. Interesting post here on the subject. ...er, no. This is not an anti-American swipe (and, by the way, I think you mean just "anti-USA", as the rest of America is metric), but a pro- International Standard, and a pro- most-widely-used, and a pro- scientific, and a pro- logical form of measurement.
And, for your information, the inch is (certainly in the UK) legally defined as being 2.54 centimeters... in other words, the old, ambiguous "Imperial" system is legally based upon the Metric system.
If you believe that the Imperial system is un-ambiguous I would ask you "what is the length of a yard?". This is not a simple question: ask any person in oil exploration.
(and, as an aside, how many fluid sources are there in a pint?)
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on May 22, 2017 2:33:04 GMT -6
Boo to metric, at least for people. Of which people do you speak? The 400 million people in the USA, or the 7000 million people not in the USA?
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