Topic: Alternate language for a friendship declaration (Read 1,727 times)
Danihel Laurieir Citizen since 7-1981; Count since 2-23-2006 member is offline
Videbimus Omnes
Joined: Jun 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 400
Alternate language for a friendship declaration « Thread Started on Dec 5, 2005, 12:10am »
Here's where my thinking is...A proposal--after John Woolley's suggestion--for a Declaration of Friendship...
Declaration of Friendship Among Talossans
We are all Talossans.
We of the Kingdom of Talossa and we of the Republic of Talossa are Talossans.
With this declaration, We Talossans—all of us who share Talossa's history, her tongue and an odd passion for Talossanity—announce our identity and friendship to the world.
We are all Talossans, but there are two Talossas
Our two Talossan homes—the Republic and the Kingdom—are each self-governing. They each have made their own independent realms in the world.
And now, having put aside any past animosity, with this declaration of friendship, we Talossans—each from the stronghold of our respective realms—dedicate ourselves to Talossan amity.
To symbolize and make tangible our dedication to friendship, We Talossans resolve to:
1. Jointly promote and guide the development the Talossan language;
2. Make available and accessible all Talossan historical records to all Talossan scholars;
3. Respect the privacy requests of all Talossan citizens;
4. Welcome the respectful and peaceful (and only occasionally ornery) participation of every Talossan in the public discussion groups of both Talossas.
By signing this Declaration of Friendship Among Talossans, the Kingdom of Talossa and the Republic of Talossa pledge themselves to good faith efforts to reach a more detailed and mutually acceptable understanding about how to accomplish these four resolves of understanding by January 1, 2006.
With these four resolves of friendship, We Talossans begin a new era of amity, and we express our joint hope that we shall undertake together many future projects to glorify Talossa.
Ma Lord Hooligan Citizen since 7-12-2005 Baron since 11-20-2005 member is offline
PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,235 Location: A Florencian in Colorado
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #1 on Dec 5, 2005, 12:34am »
Wow -- the phrase "there are two Talossas" springs from the pen of the founder of the OTP. How times have changed!
I imagine that these four resolutions can be agreed to by all Talossans; they obviously leave many issues unresolved, but they would form a basis for a resumption of coöperation on cultural and historical matters. Justice Lorentz's suggestions avoid recognition of a separate governing authority over the provinces, and thus the result is not a treaty between nations, but an agreement between the Kingdom and a group of Talossans who exercised their legal right to leave the protection of the King. I imagine the Republic can choose to view such an agreement in a similar light, in view of their own organizational beliefs.
Incidentally, since such a thing as Justice Lorentz proposes would not be a treaty, I believe that it would not even need to be put before the Cosâ -- the Government could conclude such an agreement without referring it to the legislators and the people.
Joined: Dec 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 24 Location: Republic of Talossa
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #3 on Dec 5, 2005, 8:06am »
Hello Dan,
I really love the language of this document. I would personally love to completly rewrite the previous document to use your language (thought I am speaking personally, and not for my government).
Many points of the original treaty are covered, directly of indirectly :
1, 6b, 7, 9, 12.
However, several issues are not touched :
A ) The ownership of talossa domains names, talossa.com, talossa.net, kingdomoftalossa.com (which is still being discussed on this board) ( points 3,4 and 5 )
B ) The exact composition of the Cug ( thought I believe that could easily be added to the document ) ( point 8 )
C ) Forbidding dual citizenship, which is already covered in our constitution, and could be covered on your side also. It doesn't NEED to be in the treaty, if other provisions exists. ( point 6a )
D ) Point 11 : creation of a common history is hinted at in your document, but not clearly spelled.
E ) Points 13 to 16 are legal material, and might not be necessary, but were there for making the treaty more official. The referendums were for making the treaty legitimate.
That leaves point #2, which seems, with point #3, to be the real opposition on your side.
Now, point #2 is mentionned by saying :
Quote:
We are all Talossans, but there are two Talossas
Our two Talossan homes—the Republic and the Kingdom—are each self-governing. They each have made their own independent realms in the world.
I will need to consult my government to know if that is enough.
In the mean time, I am not considering that draft new treaty as being anything, and I am not officially giving my opinion on it as Foreign Affairs minister.
My official position on the treaty negociations, is that I only officialy review suggestions coming from 2 persons :
1 ) My Prime-Minister 2 ) Your foreign affairs minister.
I would suggest, if you are serious with your idea, to ask your foreign affairs minister to being a new round of negociation on the treaty, with your above text. If possible, try to add as many points I mentionned as missing as you are comfortable with ( such as point B and D ).
Off the record, personally ( not as an official ) I cannot endorse a treaty without the explicit recognition that the Kingdom of Talossa officially renounces it's claims on Talossa.com and Talossa.net. For me, personally, this is something non-negociable. To convince me personally, you will need either to recognize it is legally ours, or at least, renounce to still want it.
But as Foreign Affairs minister, I am under order of the PM of the Republic of Talossa, and it is NOT my job to reveal her opinions on the matter.
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #4 on Dec 5, 2005, 10:56am »
Thank you, Dan. I believe careful thought and open discussion will lead to a document that can guide friendly and peaceful relations between citizens. Keep working, ladies and gentlemen from all corners of the Kingdom and Republic.
Lord Q Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006 member is offline
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Joined: Jun 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,218 Location: Florenciâ
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #5 on Dec 5, 2005, 7:26pm »
Very nice, Dan!
Quote:
Off the record, personally ( not as an official ) I cannot endorse a treaty without the explicit recognition that the Kingdom of Talossa officially renounces it's claims on Talossa.com and Talossa.net. For me, personally, this is something non-negociable. To convince me personally, you will need either to recognize it is legally ours, or at least, renounce to still want it.
M-P is quite right. He and JP bought the domains with their own money. I've always thought that this should never have been the issue it was.
Besides, the main argument that the Republic was going to "steal" all our prospective citizens never came to be, as evidenced by our current number of cybercits post-revolution.
Joined: Dec 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 24 Location: Republic of Talossa
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #6 on Dec 5, 2005, 9:09pm »
Quote:
Very nice, Dan!
M-P is quite right. He and JP bought the domains with their own money. I've always thought that this should never have been the issue it was.
Besides, the main argument that the Republic was going to "steal" all our prospective citizens never came to be, as evidenced by our current number of cybercits post-revolution.
We never wanted to steal your prospective. We NEVER contacted any of your prospective citizens, and we even sent you one of ours which confused the Kingdom and the Republic and wanted to join to be a member of CUG (I don't think he became one of your citizens thought).
We are NOT in the process of wildly increasing our numbers. We prefer to be selective and restrain ourselves to only the citizens who trully believe in the ideals of the Republic.
If they are confused between the Kingdom and the Republic, we will educate them honestly. We don't want them switching later to the Kingdom, or feeling out of place with us.
Quantity is not an objective for us, just a steady calm growth.
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 230 Location: Cézembre, naturellement
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #7 on Dec 6, 2005, 3:03am »
I have more than once directed a lost prospective to Fritz. The argument about "citizen poaching" was always a silly notion. People join the state they want to join. If they prefer a monarchy to a republic, who am I to argue? We compete with our achievements and our atmosphere, not by attracting the most hits from Google. Any prospective citizen in the one state is likely to have checked out both nations and chosen the one s/he prefers.
Joined: Dec 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 24 Location: Republic of Talossa
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #8 on Dec 6, 2005, 5:13am »
Quote:
I have more than once directed a lost prospective to Fritz. The argument about "citizen poaching" was always a silly notion. People join the state they want to join. If they prefer a monarchy to a republic, who am I to argue? We compete with our achievements and our atmosphere, not by attracting the most hits from Google. Any prospective citizen in the one state is likely to have checked out both nations and chosen the one s/he prefers.
The only poaching that occured was in the mind of Ben Madison, who also firmly believes that many of the current CLP members are aliases of Republican Citizens !
Furthermore, I believe that most micronation can live happily in contact with each other, and that each should cultivate its own speciality rather than trying only appeal to everyone. This is one of the basis of ESTO : cultivate our differences !
Those that prefer the caracteristics of the Kingdom will join it, those that prefer the caracteristics of the Republic will join it. End of story.
But in the end, the bigger the population doesn't make the best micronation : when it is too big, the population fragments and there are less contacts. Also, it creates an overload of Wittenberg, with many citizens unable to follow everything happening. The less active citizens lose the ability to follow the pace and lose interest.
I believe micronations should not focus on a very high citizen count, but rather on having a population high enough to generate a level of activity that is interesting.
Ben was fixated on contant increase in numbers, but the time when the population was the most stable and active was when their numbers were low !
Lord Q Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006 member is offline
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Joined: Jun 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 1,218 Location: Florenciâ
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #9 on Dec 6, 2005, 8:36pm »
Quote:
The only poaching that occured was in the mind of Ben Madison, who also firmly believes that many of the current CLP members are aliases of Republican Citizens !
Well, duh! How else were we going to destroy the Kingdom and hand everything over to you and Gruber?
Quedéir Castiglhâ, GST Barôn del Regipäts Talossán Cadì del Cort pü Înalt
Sir Samuhel Tecladeir Citizen since 8-22-2005; Knight since 10-23-2006 member is offline
If you don't rock the boat, no one will know it's sinking.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 434 Location: Washington State
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #10 on Dec 7, 2005, 12:56am »
So, am I in the correct understanding that this is the framework we will work from? If so, we can add the specifics Mr. Furxheir outlines and take a look at it that way.
As far as the domain names go, I think M-P is only asking that we recognize the legality of it. To me, if it's been bought and paid for, the legality is of little question and a somewhat obvious point. But if the inclusion makes the process more palatable, we should include it.
Sir Samuhel Tecladeir Citizen since 8-22-2005; Knight since 10-23-2006 member is offline
If you don't rock the boat, no one will know it's sinking.
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 434 Location: Washington State
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #12 on Dec 7, 2005, 2:39pm »
Quote:
Please note that M-P is speaking (a lot) as a private citizen here. Do not assume that anything of all this is Republican government views or policy.
I understand that, however, since the original document did address Republic concerns and his analysis is simply a comparison between the original and the new, it would seem that his ideas would incorporate more of what the Republic desired than leaving the newly proposed document as is.
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #13 on Dec 23, 2005, 1:26am »
A Declaration of Friendship. This should be brought to the forefront as we approach 26 December 2005. The Regent is pleased that he is able to witness the process of peaceful recognition and friendship among Talossans of the Kingdom and Republic.
Ma Lord Hooligan Citizen since 7-12-2005 Baron since 11-20-2005 member is offline
PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 3,235 Location: A Florencian in Colorado
Re: Alternate language for a friendship declaratio « Reply #14 on Dec 23, 2005, 10:27am »
The Acting Prime Minister reports that some action on this front is planned. I have yet to be in touch with the other parties to this declaration, but the Foreign Minister and I hope to work on the agreement together with them. I am not sure that we will make Independence Day, but hopefully soon thereafter we will have a report to make. In the interests of keeping the citizens of the Kingdom informed, I plan to publish details and a draft of the declaration on Witt as soon as possible.
![[Home]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif "[Send Topic To Friend]")
![[Print]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Author![[avatar]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/heraldry/t-laurieir.gif "[avatar]")
Logged![[avatar]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/heraldry/t-hand.gif "[avatar]")
![[aim]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/aim.gif "[aim]")
![[homepage]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
![[avatar]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/passport.gif "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/heraldry/t-rajala.gif "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://www.thebricktestament.com/website_images/thumbnail_exodus.jpg "[avatar]")
![[image]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/heraldry/t-burr.gif "[image]")
![[avatar]](http://www.KingdomOfTalossa.net/heraldry/t-tyler.gif "[avatar]")