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newBookmarkLockedFalling 52nd Cosa, 6th Clark - February 2019 - Voting
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V: The Organic Law, however, is the document that gives effect to the Covenants. It is inferior to the Covenants. We practice this implicitly with the provision that all laws must be interpreted through the lens of the Covenants. Feb 10, 2019 17:35:03 GMT -6
V: That's already ingrained in the Organic Law. What bifurcation does is illuminates conflating the importance of the Organic Law with the supreme importance of the Covenants. Feb 10, 2019 17:35:43 GMT -6
V: If one takes issue with the current Covenants - I would support a rewrite to clean them up. Feb 10, 2019 17:36:13 GMT -6
V: But that said, this argument that if we adopted the new Org Law and the Covenants, it would be inorganic is lost when we consider that by adopting the new org law, we relinquish the shackles of the old Org Law. Feb 10, 2019 17:37:05 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: You have some good points. To be sure, the longevity and tradition of the OrgLaw make it (and us) stand out from other, similar, places. But your argument here in this thread basically boils down to "it's too cumbersome." And that's not true. Feb 10, 2019 20:02:08 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: The new proposal is just as cumbersome and complicated, except where it has omissions that will need to be remedied. Even leaving aside the fatal flaws, it's not an improvement in this way, except for the lack of "holes." Feb 10, 2019 20:03:20 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: Ultimately, the same amount of effort spent amending the current OrgLaw would have had equal or superior effect to coming up with a new system of government, plus it wouldn't have trashed the old one to which we swore an oath. Feb 10, 2019 20:04:18 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: And finally, the entire process is being performed by the legislative process as normal, which means it is part of that process. Elevating new supreme documents so easily should not be possible, since that is dangerous and ill-conceived. Feb 10, 2019 20:05:35 GMT -6
V: Not really - in effect- we're amending the prior org law by repealing all aspects of it and passing adopting new sections. So yoi can keep your longevity. Feb 10, 2019 20:28:07 GMT -6
Ian Plätschisch: Yeah, the whole reason we aren't calling it "The 2019 Organic Law" is because you convinced us not to Feb 10, 2019 20:46:13 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: So... if you agree with me, why the argument? Yes, we're doing it entirely within the frame of the current Organic Law, passing a massive amendment to install a new constitution in its shell. Good, I guess, although this is a weird conversation. Feb 10, 2019 22:02:41 GMT -6
Sir Alexandreu Davinescu: I am comforted by the fact that this probably won't pass referendum, but why run in circles like the above? Let's just be straightforward. Feb 10, 2019 22:03:58 GMT -6
Glüc da Dhi: Less than 23 hours to vote on groups 3&4 Feb 12, 2019 10:17:55 GMT -6
Glüc da Dhi: Voting has started on groups 5&6 Feb 13, 2019 9:11:34 GMT -6
Glüc da Dhi: Only 22 hours left to vote on groups 5&6 Feb 16, 2019 11:03:29 GMT -6
Glüc da Dhi: Voting has started on groups 7&8 Feb 17, 2019 10:23:41 GMT -6
Sevastáin Pinátsch: Happy Birthday Ian Plätschisch Feb 18, 2019 18:58:19 GMT -6
Ian Plätschisch: Thanks Feb 18, 2019 22:30:27 GMT -6
Ahmed El Mootasim: AZUL Feb 19, 2019 11:24:33 GMT -6
Ian Plätschisch: Azul Feb 19, 2019 21:12:57 GMT -6